I am looking for some help here on solving a discussion between myself and my father.
We are trying to figure out which is the better overall round -- 6.8 spc or 6.5 grendel.
Personally I am in love with the 6.8 round and believe it takes care of pretty much everything in the short to mid range (400 meters) spectrum.
He believes the 6.5 grendel is better because it shoots flatter and faster than the 6.8 does.
What do you all think are the pros and cons between these 2 rounds??? I am interested in both the hunting and CQB aspect of this argument so ALL comments are appreciated.
Last edited by ArtFWTx; 09-11-2009 at 01:07 AM.
The 6.8 SPC is the fastest growing AR-15 cartridge. It is by far the #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.
A few members here have both and I hope they come along and answer question for you as I feel they can best articulate advantages and advantages to both rounds.
Big Bore or caporider are the first two that pop into my head. Ill send them a note.
When there's lead in the air...there's hope in the heart.
Oh, how the ghost of you clings...
this will be short and only the facts I know, I have had 3 Grendels and 10+ 6.8s
Maximum handloads from a 20" 6.8 can push 110gr bullets to 2900fps. 12 twist 3 groove
Maximum handloads from a 16" 6.8 can push 100gr Accubonds to 3000fps. 11.25 twist 5R
Maximum handloads from a 22" Grendel can push 100gr Lapua scenars to apx 2850fps. 10 twist 5R
According to John Holliger, " the Hagar's smaller rim diameter (compared to a 6BR or 6.5 Grendel) produces less bolt thrust (an issue with the AR15). Third, the Hagar's relatively old-fashioned long, narrow case feeds more reliably than "modern" short, fat designs.".
The 6.8 is the fastest growing cartridge and best choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15. AR15Performance.com
Well he's my 3.13 cents.
6.8 SPC is chambered in many different guns. While the 6.5 Grendel is mostly an AR platform weapon from what I can tell.
I went with the 6.8 SPC because it fits what I needed it to do. I got mine the form of a Ruger Mini 6.8. It works although I'm restricted to the SAMMI chambering and the 1 in 10 twist rate, I can find ammo at my local gun shop...don't get it there though. Its all Remingtons and the hunting loads over $40 a box. Thats why I got it through the site sponsor SSA.
The 6.8 SPC was made originally to be short to medium range for the M-4 and AR platforms I believe. It could of been a 6.5 SPC but the one's who made it compromised and went with the 270 bullet for good closer range performance. (Slap me down if I'm wrong here)
The 6.5 Grendel was made for best all round performance. It shoots flatter and is a better well balanced bullet due to its great BC and sectional density if I'm right. But for some dang reason its so hard to find in a gun and so far I heard its only in AR builds or special conversions like those great guys at AI. (Ok people correct me if I'm wrong on this but this is from what I looked around for). For me a Converted Mini 30 in to 6.5 Grendel would be my ideal gun (side note heard promag 6.8 SPC mags work great in that converted mini for grendel). But it cost as much as a high end AR and I can't afford that. Its longer better range than the 6.8 SPC but most realistic shooting in this cartridge size is out to 300 yards.
But alas I went with the more accessible 6.8 SPC as it was in a gun I could afford, its performance is decent for real world applications and what I got it for. Varmints to Deer in a light carbine. The Grendel would of been better probably but its not very accessible ammo wise or the guns that shoot it very affordable. (I don't reload or do/afford ARs). But the 6.8 SPC is out there in several guns, and fills the need very nicely. To sound like a parrot. I have no idea why the 6.5 Grendel maker did so bad on getting his better bullet out of there when the 6.8 SPC, even with the wrong Chambering specs being sent to SAMMI, took off like wild fire. So I'm using my Ruger Mini 6.8 with its SAMMI Chamber and older Barrel Twist and find it still works very well for what I got it for. But if any one wants to send me a FREE AR in 6.8 SPC, I probably be converted from the Ruger, I won't mind! I'm not Picky
OK OK I'd use BOTH guns.
For starters I don't have a dog in either fight. I don't own any 6.8 or 6.5 rifles currently. But I have spoken to many of the people involved in developing certain aspects of both calibers and I have kept a steady eye on both for a few years to see where it all settled out at.
I can tell you why the 6.5 hasn't caught on like the 6.8 pretty readily but it really doesn't address the "which is better" question, really.
Perhaps it is important to realize that there are all sorts of weird and wonderful calibers that are available out there--some are wildcats, some are semi-production rounds. Many of them will shoot farther, flatter and harder than the 6.8 spc. If I wanted to pick some obscure caliber for achieving some particular purpose there are a lot of great choices, one of which is the 6.5 that Alexander Arms is doing.
If you want a compact AR platform, or bolt action that offers good killing performance (four-legged or two) in a shorter barrel, and you want your ammunition and reloading components readily available there is not currently a better choice than the 6.8 SPC.
When the round was first created they recognized that they could get better long range performance by going to a different round dimension but they opted for a middle ground because of the effectiveness of the 6.8 at killing.
I remember a company talking about how the AR platform would be all 6mm PPC within 10 years...and that was 20 years ago, and hardly anybody even knows the AR was ever chambered in 6mm PPC. I suspect the 6.5 will be a lot the same. Neat round with some real advantages over the 6.8 in some areas, but heading for obscurity.
The 6.5 Grendel is popular with silhouette shooters and is being developed for the AR platform. Check out the article at 6mmbr.com (http://www.6mmbr.com/65grendel.html). It should give you some insight to make an effective argument with your dad. While the round is not as available as the 6.8spc, factory ammo and reloading components are available. There are, of course, pros & cons for all calibers. It really depends on what you want to use the cartridge for. If you only plan on using it for hunting where you shoot less than 100 rounds per year, then there is nothing wrong with the 6.5 Grendel and ammo availability is a secondary consideration to performance. If you plan on shooting a lot of rounds (more than 500 rounds per year), I think the 6.8 is a better all around cartridge (lots of bullets for different applications). Its also fun to shoot. IMHO, the 6.8 is a more versatile round for a host of reasons.
I think your always better to go with a cartridge that is loaded as factory ammo by one of the major ammunition companies (Remington, Winchester or Federal). The chance of wide aceptance and therefor ammunition/component availability in the future is much better.
On the performance side I don't know how you could ask for much better than what we can get with 110gr Barnes TTSX and Nosler Accubond bullets in the 6.8
I think it depends on if you want a shorter rifle or a longer one, it seems most of the 65 info is from 22 plus inch long barrels where you rarely see a 6.8 with a barrel longer then 20.
"I figure we are gunman because we are better then most, and it beats branding cows or digging copper" -Appaloosa
Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.-Thomas Paine
I own both and like both. The only "advantage" that I see with 6.8SPC is the smaller case head which translates into a stronger bolt. Buy whatever your heart desires and shoot the crap out of it. I do.
from the 12th floor of the acme building