Hello again all. Here's one more challenge for experienced crew on 68 forums. I'm having built an AR using a Lewis Machine Tool (LMT) lower with a SOPMOD extendable stock and a flat top upper from AR Performance. I have a Burris Fullfield II scope in 4.5-14X with a 42mm objective lense. I'm considering purchasing a Burris AR P.E.P.R scope mount but before I buy I'd like to know if I really need this kind of scope ring set that pushes the scope forward out over the handguard or if I can just use a set of rings and mount them both on the the flat top rail of the receiver? I've seen some of the photos on this forum with the scope pushed forward. Why is this so? I presume most are trying to obtain easier access to the charging handle or is it purely a matter of eye relief? Help!
I have a couple P.E.P.R. scope mounts and I love them. I always have to move the scope forward to get proper eye relief. Mine are mounted about 3/4 an inch in front of the handle. Here are some pictures of 2 of mine and 2 of my Dad's. Mine are the top 2. 3 of them have P.E.P.R. mounts.
The burris mount is great because it move the punt forward. It is not a good idea to startle the upper receiver and handguard. If you just use the rings, you will have to open up the stock nearly all the way open.
Midway is fine, but SWFA is a bit cheaper and they ship fast, like Midway.
If you don't like the railed rings, SWFA has a SSALT mount that has smooth-top rings. I am pretty sure the rings will interchange between the PEPR and the SSALT. At SWFA, the PEPR is $70 and the SSALT is $60.
The PEPR can be had in either 1" or 30mm, but the SSALT is 30mm & includes 1" inserts.
Thank you Jough for the good price and purchase location. I'm out of luck, I placed my ordered already through Midway and forgot about SWFA. They're a very good web site and seem to have the best prices. I have other smooth top rings from Burris that should fit but thanks also for the intel on the SSALT rings.
Guys, this will be long winded. So follow me here ok.
The issue I see with all AR family mounts is this. The AR-15 / 10 family is designed around the idea of iron sighted battle rifle. Because of this, lessons learned with the M-1 Grand, M-14 and other builds, the AR-15 / 10 has a fixed length of pull for proper sight alignment of the rear sight aperture. Adding a M4 / CAR-15 style stock or any variation of the type, makes this issue worse. The design of the fixed LOP stock to the AR family is so the rifle can fit all sizes of Soldiers, Marines some Sailors and very few Airmen.
Some would also say the charging handle is the size it is as an index point so you will always have the same eye to rear-sight aperture distance for the same sight alignment. Also why there are two sides to the charging handles finger engagement pads.
We as a group of shooters that SHOULD understand the fundamentals of marksmanship; understand the level of accuracy gained with a proper cheek weld to stock and agree with this training point of a index point on a rifle to gain cheek weld and the same sight picture. No matter the sighting system be it, a rifle scope or open sights.
Since the start of the A3/A4 upper receivers the AR-15 / 10 rifles work best with a non-parallax optics @ 50yds and beyond aka EO-Tech's, AimPoints and the like, because the LOP and the index point as a training point still work. With a magnified optic that is a parallax induced riflescope; this original design has been and still can be a bastardization effort to make the sighting system work just right.
So what I ask is this, if a new mounting platform is to be designed, I would go from the start of it all. I would measure the height of the rear aperture from the stocks comb and the distance forward of the rear location of the receiver and make that the focus point of any and all optics, no matter the tube size, eye relief or MOA built in the base it's self.
With the measurement of the A-15 A1/A2 upper receivers rear aperture sight location from up and forward the axis point is now found for all optics, that gives the best cheek weld. I say this because how many people can not get a cheek weld on a AR-15 A1 or A2 iron sighted rifle? In my days as a 11B, no one, male or female had a issue. Big or small, different cheek to eye socket distances made no difference. They all could use the rifles sights.
But add in Brand X optic mount and Brand X rifle Scope, "well it fits me, but not you" Or why is this optic so low? Or why does this scope shadow" and the best, I need a cheek weld riser!!!!!!!
Almost every mount except the Larue SPR-E and the ADM Recon has the rear of the optic with the option of being even with the charging handle. So because of this, it makes the shooter short stock the Length of pull to get the proper eye relief. I think this measurement as a focus point will stop the short stocking, and the goose necking to get the eye relief needed, and / or a 45 degree off set of a shooters core to the prone position. Also this makes sitting a joke, standing a pain in the A$$ and all other up side down, backwards positions not work.
So here is a base picture of my idea.
Ok, with that, what good does this mount do for you?
Or this one:
How about this?
Any of these?
All of these are made by great company's, all of them hold a optic to the upper nice and tight, to bad you got to have a jacked up shooting position to use them.
Now lets look at the other direction.
Or if you NEED MOA Slope
And that base intern does this:
I get so sick of seeing people working there A$$ in the ground, spend that money and buy CRAP that does not do the job they need there parts to preform!!!!!!!