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Announcing the .277 Wolverine / 6.8x39

191K views 839 replies 106 participants last post by  Woodstock 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok. Here we go. This post will be updated frequently, but I'll answer as many questions as possible in any replies.

First things first, the thank-you's. 1) Harrison at AR15 Performance - I have been bugging the crap out of him over the past couple months over this whole thing. He has been a tremendous help. I sent him a PM through the board with an idea I had, and low and behold, he had thought about as well years ago. I told him I wanted to shove a 6.8 bullet into a 5.56 case. He without fail, has answered all of my questions and has guided me through this whole thing. He even sent me a drawing to get started. There is no particular reason he would ever be obligated to help me, he doesn't even know me, but, he simply said "just glad to see someone doing this". 2) This board. I joined months ago, and have bugged, annoyed, and peeved some folks around here asking certain questions and provoking certain conversations trying to wrap my head around what I was doing with this and trying to fill the gaps of my knowledge. I'm still "new", but it would not be fair to not recognize all of the Members, Mods, Admins, Founders and whomever else is involved in this forum being here. Thanks for putting up with me and maybe now you see why I have been asking so many crazy questions.

There are a few things I need to say that will hopefully stand out immediately to anyone reading this to avoid some questions/comments:

1) This cartridge is in NO WAY meant to compete with the 6.8SPC's velocities. It simply can't.
2) I am not an engineer, machinist or physicist. Let's make that clear. I am receiving great guidance, however, and am pretty resourceful.
3) I had an idea, and am seeing it through. I'm not going to be disappointed if some people don't like it.
4) The name of the cartridge is the .277 Wolverine, and it's metric designation would be the 6.8x39, but has nothing to do with the 7.62x39, case or otherwise.
5) The Wolverine part has nothing to do with fantasy characters... it is a blend of the animal's reputation (small but ferocious), and, I happen to be a huge fan of the movie Red Dawn (The Original Version!) so there's my little personal touch.
6) I am funding this entire project on my own, and farming out most of the work so that is why it is taking longer than I want, and costing me more than I want to bring it to fruition.
7) This cartridge is not meant to be a long range DMR, Sniper, or any other long range application. Sure, you could launch one out there, but that's not the intent. The intent was to produce a CQB/Mid-Range cartridge using a 5.56 case/mags/bolt but with a 6.8 bullet. That simple.

The meat and potatoes:

I have the reamer. I have the first barrel in this caliber in the process of being made as I type. I have the first set of custom dies being made as I type. I should have all of them back at my house by mid-December, just in time for Christmas. I will hopefully have the dies first so I can make a batch of ammo, take it to the range and test it out when the barrel arrives. I'm pretty excited for Christmas this year.

This new cartridge uses a 5.56 case as the host, and 6.8 (.277) projectiles. WHY you might ask? Well, here's why:

  • It uses 5.56 brass, and I used Lake City as the host brass to get the dies made since there are more LC cases floating around than I could fathom.
  • It uses 6.8 (.277) projectiles whose selection is vast, with successful varieties available for hunting, self-defense and target shooting.
  • Like the 300BLK, you only need a barrel. It uses 5.56 mags and bolts. You will need the custom die set or a 5.56 bushing dies with some work done to it to produce the ammunition.
  • Taking into account case capacity, a 90 grain TNT bullet and/or a 110 Sierra Pro Hunter bullet, and commercially available powders, the anticipated (hoping) velocities and energy of this cartridge may surprise you. I might be able to get a 90 grain TNT bullet going 2600+ fps, and a 110 Sierra Pro Hunter bullet going 2400+ fps out of a 16" barrel while maintaining perfectly safe chamber pressures and bolt thrust. If you want to go plug those numbers into a ballistics calculator, until I can post a chart, please do so. I feel it's impressive considering the other benefits/versatility that come with the cartridge. Please take into account the velocity thresholds of these bullets and you will see that proper bullet performance is possible to 300 yards.
  • 300 yards is the average distance that most shooters feel is their limit as far as pushing similar cartridges after surveying the members here and elsewhere.
  • I haven't researched it yet, but I do think there is a good chance of decent suppression capabilities with 150 grain bullets.

So, as you might see, I feel I have a pretty exciting development here. Standard AR platform, just a different barrel, and feel free to also compare the projected ballistics to 5.56 and 300BLK's numbers - taking into account bullet options and performance capabilities such as velocity thresholds and expansion capabilities.

I'll add more as I go, but I welcome comments from this group. After I receive my components, and get to thoroughly test the various loadings, I plan to offer a group buy scenario (with the permission of the site, and not sure how I would approach it yet) if anyone is interested in it so that we can get barrels, dies, case gauges, headspace gauges and even reamers at a discounted rate by buying in bulk. I have already talked to H at ARP and plan to have him produce the barrels if this scenario works out. Maybe I'll attempt a group buy, maybe I'll try the RocketHub thing, or maybe I'll just front the cash and hope for the best based on the feedback here. Should have a handle on this by January/February 1 I'm hoping.

If folks are interested, I can probably get people into a 16" barrel and a set of dies for around $325.00 shipped. Maybe less. Case gauges, headspace gauges would cost extra. But that discussion is for a later time...

If this whole thing works out, and members here are interested, I will only offer the .277 Wolverine components to members of THIS forum first. That's my thank you.

So please, let me know what you think!

-Mark
 
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#3 ·
WOLVERINES! :a15:

Good luck with the project.
 
#5 ·
L.I.B. Inktristink. It'll be intriguing to see how this develops. I hope the numbers pan out to make this a workable 'cat. Best of luck on this project (sincerely). It'll be fun to find out how it does in the sub-sonic realm too with the heavier bullets.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thanks RD. I appreciate it. I looked at the weights/velocities of the BLK bullets and with a different twist than the barrel I'm using, I do really think it's possible to come close it's subsonic performance. Don't know for sure though. Yet. I may ask HTR if I can come visit and try her out. Good thing is there are plenty of folks out there with suppressors that will work with this. I also believe its SBR performance will be quite efficient.
 
#10 ·
Thanks Greg! I am really excited about it... having gone from someone that didn't even know how to reload to developing a Cat in just a few months I think this is goign to work out really well! I saw your reveal as well, congrats!!! We'll have to go shootin' sometime!

Very neat idea! Good luck and I'll be keeping an eye on the progress!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Thanks Aspp... I fear I won't have much to update until Christmas... but I wanted to let folks know I'm working on it and wanted to answer any technical questions folks might have and gauge interest.

I really like you. No seriously.

I have about a bajillion LC556 cases that beg me not to be turned into .300BLKs. However, I asked them, and they would be more than happy to be turned into .277 Wolverines. (WOLVERINES!!)

I will follow this closely. For real. In fact I am going to go out and hold a 95 TTSX up to a 5.56 case and dream.
Thanks CHALK! You almost just made my eyes rain a bit... The 95TTSX is a good option. See, this cartridge fancies bullets that are 1" or less in length ideally, otherwise case capacity starts to get compromised which means you'll have less range with the 95TTSX than you're used to. (It's only over an inch by .033, though, so impact is minimal). The good thing is the 95TTSX has a velocity threshold of 1600 fps, so that REALLY helps... offsets the capacity issue. The 85 grain TSX for example, has a VT of 2100 fps - unfortunately not ideal, but it is a shorter bullet so it may balance out somewhat. I am going to be testing 90 TNT's, 95TTSX, 82 grain Raptors, 110SPH, 130 Grain Interlock and then I'll see how 150+ do. (Remember me buying all those random batches of bullets in the EE?) :)
 
#8 ·
Very neat idea! Good luck and I'll be keeping an eye on the progress!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
#9 ·
I really like you. No seriously.

I have about a bajillion LC556 cases that beg me not to be turned into .300BLKs. However, I asked them, and they would be more than happy to be turned into .277 Wolverines. (WOLVERINES!!)

I will follow this closely. For real. In fact I am going to go out and hold a 95 TTSX up to a 5.56 case and dream.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Okay, I went out and did it. Sexy as hell, too! You have my attention, sir.





I'm not trying to steal your Kool-aid, I just wanted to see for myself. I am not sure what case length you will be using, I just blew out a standard case. I think it actually cheered as the expander ball reamed it out. Is H gonna make your barrels?
 
#14 · (Edited)
Nice work CHALK! Now, picture the shoulder on the .277Wolvy case bumped back about .20 or so, and the case length trimmed back about .23 or so... and there she is! And don't forget it uses standard 5.56 mags, so COAL is 2.26. Should run through PMags and GI mags just fine; we will see during testing. And yes, I'm going straight to ARP for production barrels.

And JW... thanks... and not just for the kind words but for all of the help you have already been. "Preeshiate ya!!".
 
#16 ·
Cool idea ya got there. Should shoot the lighter stuff very well. I would stick with 100 grains or lighter. Get some Barnes TSX 80's if they still make them. That would be my go to bullet for this cat. Grab some fast powder and set some fires!
 
#18 ·
When I looked at this a few years ago(it's posted here somewhere) I wasn't going to half ass the cat. In order for this round to stack perfectly in 5.56 mags the mouth of the case had to be behind the front rib of the mag or it would pinch the cartridges in the front. That means the case had to be cut to 39mm. The faster powders usable with this case size and bore combo will help the efficiency and produce good velocity even though the case is much shorter.
 
#390 ·
I agree 100%. I am on Mobil and won't lie...I want to know without reading this whole thread...

how is feeding with various bullets?
Is this round picky like 300Blk can be in that regard?
How is the mag rib issue?
How short can you go on barrels before you're killing it and just making noise?
 
#19 ·
H, there will be a wood case, lined with felt, containing a reamer, a barrel, a set of dies, a case gauge and a set of headspace gauges on your shelf from me to you for all of your help with this. I may even get Ident to do a little something special on your set. Hell, I'll hand deliver it and bring out a complete rifle for us to blast away with! You da man, thank you again.
 
#24 ·
THS,

We've tossed this idea around in the past and I think it has merit.

Do you have dimensions for the chamber and cartridge?
 
#26 ·
THS,

We've tossed this idea around in the past and I think it has merit.

Do you have dimensions for the chamber and cartridge?
I do! Already have: Reamer and Gauge drawings, proofed, reamer made and at the barrel maker to make my barrel, case gauge and headspace gauges available, custom dies being made from sample cases and reamer/gauge drawings. Just waiting for the dies and barrel to get here so I can load and shoot!
 
#27 ·
Tell me about it...! And thanks! I will be able to post verified ballistics around January 1, and I'm in the process now of compiling a comprehensive projected ballistics chart to post. It's kind of big and a PITA so although I was hoping to post it tonight, we'll see.
 
#28 ·
#29 ·
Thanks Clint. Another member forwarded those to me this morning. Had no idea they existed, great read. I knew I wasn't the only person that had to have thought of it, and I'm moving forward with the design I have. I firmly believe that it will be successful (within its scope and intent), otherwise I wouldn't have dumped the time and money into it. I was driving when I received the message with those links in them, pulled over, read them on the side of the road and they made me even more confident there is a place for this. Thanks again for sharing.
 
#31 · (Edited)
5.56 case, shoulder bumped back .20, case trim length 1.535, COAL 2.26. Same 23 degree shoulder angle. Makes loading a breeze. I have a few post-it notes and napkins around here with conceptual cartridge drawings on them but those are hard to PM ha! I know you have CAD... excited to see a rendition if you have the time!
 
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