Ok. Here we go. This post will be updated frequently, but I'll answer as many questions as possible in any replies.
First things first, the thank-you's. 1) Harrison at AR15 Performance - I have been bugging the crap out of him over the past couple months over this whole thing. He has been a tremendous help. I sent him a PM through the board with an idea I had, and low and behold, he had thought about as well years ago. I told him I wanted to shove a 6.8 bullet into a 5.56 case. He without fail, has answered all of my questions and has guided me through this whole thing. He even sent me a drawing to get started. There is no particular reason he would ever be obligated to help me, he doesn't even know me, but, he simply said "just glad to see someone doing this". 2) This board. I joined months ago, and have bugged, annoyed, and peeved some folks around here asking certain questions and provoking certain conversations trying to wrap my head around what I was doing with this and trying to fill the gaps of my knowledge. I'm still "new", but it would not be fair to not recognize all of the Members, Mods, Admins, Founders and whomever else is involved in this forum being here. Thanks for putting up with me and maybe now you see why I have been asking so many crazy questions.
There are a few things I need to say that will hopefully stand out immediately to anyone reading this to avoid some questions/comments:
1) This cartridge is in NO WAY meant to compete with the 6.8SPC's velocities. It simply can't.
2) I am not an engineer, machinist or physicist. Let's make that clear. I am receiving great guidance, however, and am pretty resourceful.
3) I had an idea, and am seeing it through. I'm not going to be disappointed if some people don't like it.
4) The name of the cartridge is the .277 Wolverine, and it's metric designation would be the 6.8x39, but has nothing to do with the 7.62x39, case or otherwise.
5) The Wolverine part has nothing to do with fantasy characters... it is a blend of the animal's reputation (small but ferocious), and, I happen to be a huge fan of the movie Red Dawn (The Original Version!) so there's my little personal touch.
6) I am funding this entire project on my own, and farming out most of the work so that is why it is taking longer than I want, and costing me more than I want to bring it to fruition.
7) This cartridge is not meant to be a long range DMR, Sniper, or any other long range application. Sure, you could launch one out there, but that's not the intent. The intent was to produce a CQB/Mid-Range cartridge using a 5.56 case/mags/bolt but with a 6.8 bullet. That simple.
The meat and potatoes:
I have the reamer. I have the first barrel in this caliber in the process of being made as I type. I have the first set of custom dies being made as I type. I should have all of them back at my house by mid-December, just in time for Christmas. I will hopefully have the dies first so I can make a batch of ammo, take it to the range and test it out when the barrel arrives. I'm pretty excited for Christmas this year.
This new cartridge uses a 5.56 case as the host, and 6.8 (.277) projectiles. WHY you might ask? Well, here's why:
So, as you might see, I feel I have a pretty exciting development here. Standard AR platform, just a different barrel, and feel free to also compare the projected ballistics to 5.56 and 300BLK's numbers - taking into account bullet options and performance capabilities such as velocity thresholds and expansion capabilities.
I'll add more as I go, but I welcome comments from this group. After I receive my components, and get to thoroughly test the various loadings, I plan to offer a group buy scenario (with the permission of the site, and not sure how I would approach it yet) if anyone is interested in it so that we can get barrels, dies, case gauges, headspace gauges and even reamers at a discounted rate by buying in bulk. I have already talked to H at ARP and plan to have him produce the barrels if this scenario works out. Maybe I'll attempt a group buy, maybe I'll try the RocketHub thing, or maybe I'll just front the cash and hope for the best based on the feedback here. Should have a handle on this by January/February 1 I'm hoping.
If folks are interested, I can probably get people into a 16" barrel and a set of dies for around $325.00 shipped. Maybe less. Case gauges, headspace gauges would cost extra. But that discussion is for a later time...
If this whole thing works out, and members here are interested, I will only offer the .277 Wolverine components to members of THIS forum first. That's my thank you.
So please, let me know what you think!
-Mark
First things first, the thank-you's. 1) Harrison at AR15 Performance - I have been bugging the crap out of him over the past couple months over this whole thing. He has been a tremendous help. I sent him a PM through the board with an idea I had, and low and behold, he had thought about as well years ago. I told him I wanted to shove a 6.8 bullet into a 5.56 case. He without fail, has answered all of my questions and has guided me through this whole thing. He even sent me a drawing to get started. There is no particular reason he would ever be obligated to help me, he doesn't even know me, but, he simply said "just glad to see someone doing this". 2) This board. I joined months ago, and have bugged, annoyed, and peeved some folks around here asking certain questions and provoking certain conversations trying to wrap my head around what I was doing with this and trying to fill the gaps of my knowledge. I'm still "new", but it would not be fair to not recognize all of the Members, Mods, Admins, Founders and whomever else is involved in this forum being here. Thanks for putting up with me and maybe now you see why I have been asking so many crazy questions.
There are a few things I need to say that will hopefully stand out immediately to anyone reading this to avoid some questions/comments:
1) This cartridge is in NO WAY meant to compete with the 6.8SPC's velocities. It simply can't.
2) I am not an engineer, machinist or physicist. Let's make that clear. I am receiving great guidance, however, and am pretty resourceful.
3) I had an idea, and am seeing it through. I'm not going to be disappointed if some people don't like it.
4) The name of the cartridge is the .277 Wolverine, and it's metric designation would be the 6.8x39, but has nothing to do with the 7.62x39, case or otherwise.
5) The Wolverine part has nothing to do with fantasy characters... it is a blend of the animal's reputation (small but ferocious), and, I happen to be a huge fan of the movie Red Dawn (The Original Version!) so there's my little personal touch.
6) I am funding this entire project on my own, and farming out most of the work so that is why it is taking longer than I want, and costing me more than I want to bring it to fruition.
7) This cartridge is not meant to be a long range DMR, Sniper, or any other long range application. Sure, you could launch one out there, but that's not the intent. The intent was to produce a CQB/Mid-Range cartridge using a 5.56 case/mags/bolt but with a 6.8 bullet. That simple.
The meat and potatoes:
I have the reamer. I have the first barrel in this caliber in the process of being made as I type. I have the first set of custom dies being made as I type. I should have all of them back at my house by mid-December, just in time for Christmas. I will hopefully have the dies first so I can make a batch of ammo, take it to the range and test it out when the barrel arrives. I'm pretty excited for Christmas this year.
This new cartridge uses a 5.56 case as the host, and 6.8 (.277) projectiles. WHY you might ask? Well, here's why:
- It uses 5.56 brass, and I used Lake City as the host brass to get the dies made since there are more LC cases floating around than I could fathom.
- It uses 6.8 (.277) projectiles whose selection is vast, with successful varieties available for hunting, self-defense and target shooting.
- Like the 300BLK, you only need a barrel. It uses 5.56 mags and bolts. You will need the custom die set or a 5.56 bushing dies with some work done to it to produce the ammunition.
- Taking into account case capacity, a 90 grain TNT bullet and/or a 110 Sierra Pro Hunter bullet, and commercially available powders, the anticipated (hoping) velocities and energy of this cartridge may surprise you. I might be able to get a 90 grain TNT bullet going 2600+ fps, and a 110 Sierra Pro Hunter bullet going 2400+ fps out of a 16" barrel while maintaining perfectly safe chamber pressures and bolt thrust. If you want to go plug those numbers into a ballistics calculator, until I can post a chart, please do so. I feel it's impressive considering the other benefits/versatility that come with the cartridge. Please take into account the velocity thresholds of these bullets and you will see that proper bullet performance is possible to 300 yards.
- 300 yards is the average distance that most shooters feel is their limit as far as pushing similar cartridges after surveying the members here and elsewhere.
- I haven't researched it yet, but I do think there is a good chance of decent suppression capabilities with 150 grain bullets.
So, as you might see, I feel I have a pretty exciting development here. Standard AR platform, just a different barrel, and feel free to also compare the projected ballistics to 5.56 and 300BLK's numbers - taking into account bullet options and performance capabilities such as velocity thresholds and expansion capabilities.
I'll add more as I go, but I welcome comments from this group. After I receive my components, and get to thoroughly test the various loadings, I plan to offer a group buy scenario (with the permission of the site, and not sure how I would approach it yet) if anyone is interested in it so that we can get barrels, dies, case gauges, headspace gauges and even reamers at a discounted rate by buying in bulk. I have already talked to H at ARP and plan to have him produce the barrels if this scenario works out. Maybe I'll attempt a group buy, maybe I'll try the RocketHub thing, or maybe I'll just front the cash and hope for the best based on the feedback here. Should have a handle on this by January/February 1 I'm hoping.
If folks are interested, I can probably get people into a 16" barrel and a set of dies for around $325.00 shipped. Maybe less. Case gauges, headspace gauges would cost extra. But that discussion is for a later time...
If this whole thing works out, and members here are interested, I will only offer the .277 Wolverine components to members of THIS forum first. That's my thank you.
So please, let me know what you think!
-Mark