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  1. #11
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    Dare I say...you get what you pay for. Sadly, in this day and age of gun-grabbing, ammo hoarding, and greedy opportunists, unscrupulous companies do pop-up to take advantage of the situation.

    If this is a reputable company (and, I'm not saying it isn't,) several things need to happen; the person responding to your inquiry should not have made inferences about your honesty...they need to simply make it right; if this person is the QC manager (and not the owner,) they should be sacked. This kind of employee can ruin a business. If it is the owner, I would not recommend them to others, nor send them further business, regardless of the price of their (dis)service. The person/people responsible for re-manufacturing this sub-par/dangerous ammunition must be fired. Talk about a liability headache!
    Capere altum!

  2. #12
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    They say that they loaded out another customer brass with yours. I would ask them why and if maybe the brass got mixed up during that run.
    This is a prime example of why it is so important to learn to reload for yourself. Sorry that you are having to go through this.
    Do they have a license to reload ammo or are they a fly by night outfit
    Last edited by CaptGrumpy; 04-29-2013 at 12:36 PM.


    Just wait till next season!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.8_Degrees F View Post
    Dare I say...you get what you pay for.
    Or do you? Given these costs: https://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/ammu...liber/68mm-spc versus new ammo, I would rather sell my brass to reloaders and reinvest the cash towards new production.



    He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. - TJ

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptGrumpy View Post
    They say that they loaded out another customer brass with yours. I would ask them why and if maybe the brass got mixed up during that run.
    This is a prime example of why it is so important to learn to reload for yourself. Sorry that you are having to go through this.
    Do they have a license to reload ammo or are they a fly by night outfit
    They say that they normally don't take customer batches less than 1000 cases but I was told they would make an exception and stick mine in on the end of a run.
    They are insured and have a Type 07 FFL according to their site.

    Their statements on their site seem to say they will make it right.

    What if ammunition doesn't chamber in my gun?

    All of our loads are within SAAMI specifications and are tested in our custom SAAMI minimum chamber gage. If your chamber meets the SAAMI specs, then our ammunition will chamber. If you are having problems, contact us so that we can help you.
    What is your return policy?

    · Due to the fungible nature of ammunition, PBR does not take returns of any ammunition after the box’s original seal has been broken.

    · PBR does not take returns of any Value Line ammunition for purely cosmetic concerns that do not affect performance of the ammunition.

    · All ammunition returned for functionality issues will have a sample deprocessed to validate its authenticity and will tested for proper operation in PBR’s test weapons

    · Ammunition found in working condition by PBR will be subject to a 15% restocking fee

    · Ammunition found to be flawed shall either be replaced by PBR with an equivalent ammunition or a refund for the ammunition's value will be issued at PBR's discretion.

    · We do not accept returns without the original receipt and we do not pay for any costs associated with returning the ammunition to PBR.

    · Before making a return, please contact us for an RMA, shipments without an RMA will be refused.
    It looks like they will validate the ammo actually came from them. I'd love to see them try to chamber it! LOL

    I'm asking for an RMA right now but it looks like I'm screwed on return shipping.



    Quote Originally Posted by 68WJ View Post
    Or do you? Given these costs: https://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/ammu...liber/68mm-spc versus new ammo, I would rather sell my brass to reloaders and reinvest the cash towards new production.
    How it the world would you know that's the company I am (or...ahem...am not) dealing with?
    Now that I know, I would've paid a little more for factory ammo if I could've found it.
    No, it isn't that great of a deal but seemed to be my best option at the time.
    If force can take away liberty, force is necessary to preserve it. It is the hatred of violence alongside the willingness to use violence that preserves liberty. In order for us to live as free men, we have to hate the violence that takes away liberty, yet at the same time, we must embrace the violence that preserves it. That is the paradox our founders appreciated and made work for over 200 years.
    --Christopher Brownwell

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68WJ View Post
    Or do you? Given these costs: https://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/ammu...liber/68mm-spc versus new ammo, I would rather sell my brass to reloaders and reinvest the cash towards new production.
    Actually, the customer brass program reloaded ammo is a good bit cheaper. Still not worth the trouble of course.
    The FMJ is $0.44 per round.

    https://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/cust...ogram/68mm-spc
    Last edited by SixEight; 04-29-2013 at 01:54 PM.
    If force can take away liberty, force is necessary to preserve it. It is the hatred of violence alongside the willingness to use violence that preserves liberty. In order for us to live as free men, we have to hate the violence that takes away liberty, yet at the same time, we must embrace the violence that preserves it. That is the paradox our founders appreciated and made work for over 200 years.
    --Christopher Brownwell

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixEight View Post
    How it the world would you know that's the company I am (or...ahem...am not) dealing with?
    Now that I know, I would've paid a little more for factory ammo if I could've found it.
    No, it isn't that great of a deal but seemed to be my best option at the time.
    The internet isn't as big as some believe.

    Good luck with the ammo anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by SixEight View Post
    Actually, the customer brass program reloaded ammo is a good bit cheaper. Still not worth the trouble of course.
    The FMJ is $0.44 per round.

    https://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/cust...ogram/68mm-spc
    That makes more sense then.



    He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. - TJ

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  8. #18
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    This is the reply I just received.

    On rifle brass, we try to be very specific when we say that we don't process it for customers by default. So if you don't process it or pay us to do it, it gets loaded as-is. Our process is to typically spot check 2 or 3 cases, and if they are under the max, we'll load them. That is not the recommended trim to, that is the max case length allowed, which is not the same thing.

    So, the fact that all of our cases in the Value Line, which we processed, worked fine would seem to indicate the issue is with the brass. Now, we expect our customers to do their due diligence when sending us brass, which is why we call out rifle specifically because we can't sample every case and pistol brass almost never requires trimming. It is a balance we have tried hard to strike and as in this situation, isn't always easy one as the responsibility for the brass is ultimately on our customer's shoulders.

    Regardless, if the ammunition bulged, it would not pass our gage. With customer brass, even if the round doesn't gage, we put it in a bag, notate that it didn't pass, and send it back to the customer. Same goes for blemishes and the like, things we would reject in production, we give back for the customer to decide what to do with. If 90% of your cartridges failed the gage because the 2 or 3 the loader checked were okay, that's one thing but it should have been noted.

    That is my concern, which is why I'd like to get it back, our gaging regimen needs to be checked carefully on this and we will do that.

    If they don't gage, then part of the fault is on us and we'll do what we can to salvage as much of it as possible and replace what can be replaced. It may highlight a weakness in the process that we can improve on and hopefully get you some ammunition that may still work.

    There is no Hazmat for ammunition, just draw a diamond on the side, fill in the top and bottom with black, and ship it UPS or FedEx. You can also label it, "ORM-D, Cartridges Small Arms" but the new standard is the diamond indicator. Just mark it RMA-YOUNG so we know what we are looking for.

    We'll get to the bottom of it and resolve this in a positive manner.
    If force can take away liberty, force is necessary to preserve it. It is the hatred of violence alongside the willingness to use violence that preserves liberty. In order for us to live as free men, we have to hate the violence that takes away liberty, yet at the same time, we must embrace the violence that preserves it. That is the paradox our founders appreciated and made work for over 200 years.
    --Christopher Brownwell

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68WJ View Post
    Or do you? Given these costs: https://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/ammu...liber/68mm-spc versus new ammo, I would rather sell my brass to reloaders and reinvest the cash towards new production.
    Hey, did you see this? https://www.pbrammo.com/value-line-68spc-115gr-fmj
    If you could get loaded ammo with used cases for less than 50 cents a round, it would sure be worth a try wouldn't it?


    To the OP, looks like they are working well with you. Looks like they do need to go even farther with ensuring the customer understands the case length issue. I believe, if I were in their shoes, I would create a form for the customer to sign and return with the issue spelled out clearly. I don't think I would trust my liability insurance coverage to spot checking 2 or 3 cases. No offense to you at all, but when leaving a critical piece of info up to the customer in an operation like this, you have to go out of your way to make sure the customer holds up their end of the deal. Been there done that (even been on the dummy end of that conversation too)
    "Weapons compound man's power to achieve; they amplify the capabilities of both the good man and the bad, and to exactly the same degree, having no will of their own. Thus we must regard them as servants, not masters - and good servants to good men. Without them, man is diminished, and his opportunities to fulfill his destiny are lessened. An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
    — Col. Jeff Cooper

    "Don't GET ready. BE ready"--Pete Italiano

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixEight View Post
    This was the response I got when I asked if they would make it right.



    This is the statement from their website.



    So...

    For them to tell that brass has been pre-trimmed to give the customer a discount, it would seem they would need to verify the length first and not just take the customer's word for it. If the case length measurements were that bad it seems they would've contacted me to tell me they needed to be trimmed and I'd be charged more.

    I didn't trim my brass before I sent it in but their statements seem to say that any out of spec length cases won't be loaded unless I'm reading something wrong.
    Whether this is totally my fault, theirs, or partly both I'm not sure.

    At the cost of sending the ammo back (with hazmat fee?) and for them just to tell me I didn't trim my brass maybe I should consider it a loss. I can pull the bullets and powder and keep the salvageable brass from the ones that shot. Maybe I can measure the cases of the remaining ammo to see if any of them will chamber and fire safely.
    This reloading company is being run by a complete jackass.
    Anyone that has the capability to trim cases is going to reload as well.

    If he is going to reman ammo, he needs to just do it, instead of all this stoopid nonsense in his response.

    Good luck with getting square with this knucklehead and then steer clear.


    Edit:
    Now that we know how he operates and responds to criticism, imagine how difficult he would be if you ever had a kaboom using his ammo.
    Stay away.
    Last edited by DirectDrive; 04-29-2013 at 05:08 PM.


 

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