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Black Hole Weaponry 6-6.8 Wildcat

104K views 106 replies 20 participants last post by  GLShooter 
#1 ·
Hey gang. Got the okay to post information, which is a direct copy from our Corporate Forum. This new wildcat is a direct neck down of the 6.8SPC case to 6mm.

Here's the info:

Comparison of the 6X68 to other cartridges

6mm AR* is made from expensive brass, is a proprietary cartridge with some restrictions. Does work well with the heavy bullets. Requires custom made reloading dies.

The 243 LBC* is made from expensive brass. Made from 264LBC/6.5 Grendel cases and has some head spacing differences. Does work well with the heavy bullets.

Both cartridges hold 36 grains of water as well as operate at 52000 max pressure.

6mm BR* and 6mm AR Turbo* both hold 38 grains of water. The turbo has to be fire formed and uses custom dies. It still only works at a max pressure of 52,000

The 6 BR uses a .473 bolt which at this time is proprietary it runs at an extreme pressure of 56,000 PSI brass is expensive but the dies are off the shelf.

6mm DTI* This is an improved version of the 6X68 Water capacity is 36 grains. The 6mm WOA groups in with this one as well. It too has a 30 degree shoulder but is made by pushing back to form it. In doing this some case capacity is lost from the case's original form. It is proprietary and requires fire forming and a set of custom dies.

**With Straight walled cases and sharp shoulder angles these cartridges tend to have issues in lipped magazines which may result in some feeding issues.

The Benefits of the 6X68 Cartridge

Easy to make with off the shelf dies. Water capacity will be more than the WOA and slightly less than the DTI. Estimated at about 35.8 grains. Does not require fire forming. It will give you the ballistic advantage of the proprietary cartridges listed above without the cost of and limitations of making and using a proprietary cartridge. Commercial Ammunition will soon be available from Tactical Ammunition and for those who wish to reload components can be purchased off the shelf.

We have chosen to bring it out on the market, free and clear, without proprietary restrictions for the enjoyment of the public.

If the interest is there, we are considering a group buy to kick off the production of this cartridge.
The group buy would be a complete upper in the buyer's choice of 18" or 20"
Black Hole Weaponry barrel. Each Upper will be assembled by Ritch Johnson (R Johnson on many boards) with parts supplied by
New Frontier Armory. Every upper purchased will include starter Ammunition supplied by Tactical Ammunition.

Read more: http://www.blackholeweaponry.proboa...=6x68&action=display&thread=767#ixzz1plsHvNeE

Next post will be the initial review from R Johnson on his 18" barreled upper.

 
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#3 ·
Review by Ritch Johnson

Quote from R Johnson's post from BHW Forum

(My barrel is supposedly in the works, either 18 or 20", but Greg (GLSHOOTER) is getting his worked up as well.)

I am really starting to like this upper. Every time I shoot it a smile comes across my face. Not only does it look good it will flat out shoot. When looking at the speeds remember this is an 18" barrel. I am sure going to a 22" barrel will have considerable gains. These are also starting loads and just starting load development. These loads were safe in my rifle, but may not be safe in yours. Start 10% lower and work your way up.


After doing some research and a little math I came up with my first load of the day. I had only loaded 4 rounds. Didn't want to load more until I had tried the first load. From the looks of this group, this needs to be investigated further.



Carl ask me to try some 100 grain bullets. So this group is for you Carl.
It will definitely go faster. We had to start somewhere.



The last loads I tried were with Benchmark. They started to come together as the speeds came up. Again, we will revisit this. The potential is there. It just needs to be fine tuned.




 
#6 ·
It's the first one that BHW has done that I'm aware of. The idea is no blown shoulders, no crazy angles... just straight neck down, easy to load. This should provide as many reloads as 6.8SPC as well... obviously it being a wildcat, always, always, load to your rifle, and start 10% lower and work loads up accordingly.
 
#9 ·
EPW is testing my 20 inch 6x45 1in 9 twist barrel, it's a BHW barrel, it's been shooting great for him. I have a 6.5PCC barrel just back from Doc69er(another BHW barrel), I heavy many projects, but can wait to see the groups and #s guys are getting from this round. I've got 6.8 empties, this might be a very worthy project(or they will get stuffed with 95TTSX's).

What are the heaviest bullets you've been testing?

Keep ROCKIN Brandon.
 
#11 ·
EPW is testing my 20 inch 6x45 1in 9 twist barrel, it's a BHW barrel, it's been shooting great for him. I have a 6.5PCC barrel just back from Doc69er(another BHW barrel), I heavy many projects, but can wait to see the groups and #s guys are getting from this round. I've got 6.8 empties, this might be a very worthy project(or they will get stuffed with 95TTSX's).

What are the heaviest bullets you've been testing?

Keep ROCKIN Brandon.
The Berger 87gr Match Hunting VLD is the heaviest tested so far, the 100gr pro hunter should work, and I will try some 100gr partitions when I get my barrel.

Paul
 
#10 ·
Keep us updated! Lots of interest here!
 
#12 ·
Thanks Paul. I thought the 100gr was tested already. I'm anxious to try some. All will be Hunting loads as that's the point of trying it out for me. May try to get some long range out of it but 300yards is as far as i can go. Vld will work fantastically I think.


Brandon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thanks Paul. I thought the 100gr was tested already. I'm anxious to try some. All will be Hunting loads as that's the point of trying it out for me. May try to get some long range out of it but 300yards is as far as i can go. Vld will work fantastically I think.

Brandon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
You are correct Brandon, I am wrong, Ritch did shoot 100gr speers.

The 87 VLD is a very accurate bullet, but I will have to try it on a few test subjects to see how it performs on mid size game.

I am a Partition guy, controlled expansion and penetration then exiting, leaving blood trail, if needed.

The Berger design is almost the opposite, it is designed to penetrate a few inches, then explode. I like the idea of dumping all the energy into the animal, but I do not like not having a exit wound, I would also think you will get lead spread out in the meat.

Paul
 
#13 ·
Brian at NFA assembled my first 6.8 upper with a BHW barrel and it flat out shoots. I am also interested in this. I would have liked to seen them start with a 6.5 and work their way down. A .25 cal would be nice too.
Brandon, is the pricing known and set for these uppers?
 
#14 ·
We already have a 6.5 that's been necked down which is what we call the 243LBC. In fact we've played around with a few Of these wildcats off the G case. It's a process to determine appropriate twists and lengths and of course loads.

A 25 is actually on the boards but out of the 223 case. I'm working on ideas for a 25 but hadnt gotten a reamer yet.

Pricing has not been decided as far as I'm aware.

Brandon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
#16 ·
I savvy now. Sorry. I think a 25 in 6.8 would simply rock my world. But like h has pointed out its like 6.5 Grendel: too few projectiles made short enough to get it loaded to mag length and not jeopardize accuracy.

To the drawing board

Brandon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
#21 ·
OK, I measured the new Silver State 6.8 SPC brass I have necked to 6 MM. Length is 1.685 nominal. I need to trim them back as the necking down does lengthen them slightly. Definitely not a 6X41.

The round should be barrel friendly as the charges are not that heavy and are far less than the 243 Winchester but only a tad more than a 6X45 and that one will last almost forever.

I have all my parts up at Ritch's to build mine and hope that the barrels come out quickly. I have the bras ready and the itch to fill 'em and make 'em empty again.

Greg

PS: The loaded dummy rounds came from my bench. LOL
 
#27 ·
Yep, just like Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy. Identical, but different!! :a08:

This cartridge will be so easy to do and everyone can use plain old bushing dies with no fire forming, shoulder bumping or neck turning. What's not to like?

I've been working hard with a 6X45 for long range shooting and this one will be able to keep up with it and go on by with no sweat.

Greg
 
#28 · (Edited)
Definitely interested. I did a buch of research on the options for a 6mm 6.8 cartridge a while back. The bullet selection in the prime weight range and the BC of those bullets is just way better than in 6.8/.277 !

I have this in my notes on the 6mm DTI:

"I don't think you will find anything as easy as a 6 x 45 as far as brass-prep. The 6mm DTI is not far behind though! It is very simple. You simply run the 6.8 brass through the DTI full-length sizing die. That brings the neck down to the correct size, but the shoulder is still at the original angle.

Once you fire the brass for the first time, the shoulder moves forward to the 30^ and from that point on, it's load and shoot.

Venatic had mentioned that the "fire-forming" process is accurate enough "to kill stuff with". Well, when you look at the size of animal he took with it, there should be no doubt that fire-forming should be accurate enough. I have taken white-tail all the way down to prairie dogs with the 6mm DTI and have found the non fire-formed cases to be accurate enough for even long-range prairie dogs. I have shot some groups side by side with non fire-formed brass along side of fire-formed brass. You can see the difference on paper, but it is VERY minimal."


A 6mm DTI is basically just a necked down 6.8 until fire formed right? If the performance and accuracy it fine while fire forming and you get the extra bit capacity afterwards, why something different? Simplicity of all brass being the same whether shot or not?
 
#29 ·
This new wildcat is a direct neck down of the 6.8SPC case to 6mm.

Here's the info:

Comparison of the 6X68 to other cartridges
The 243 LBC* is made from expensive brass. Made from 264LBC/6.5 Grendel cases and has some head spacing differences. Does work well with the heavy bullets.

...hold 36 grains of water as well as operate at 52000 max pressure.

As for this new cartridge, and comparing it to the 243 LBC...

243 LBC headspacing should be addressed with a barrel-bolt combo or upper purchase. As for brass, one of the periodic 6.8 requests is for better brass, specifically Lapua. So despite the higher brass cost with the 243 LBC, it might be considered a plus. (AA sells 6.5 Lapua brass for ~$65 per 100.)

Which cartridge would be better suited to 100gr+ 6mm bullets?

What pressure can the new 6-6.8 operate at?

Don't get me wrong. Choices are good. But at a glance, the only advantage I'm seeing to the 6-6.8 over the 243 LBC is for the existing 6.8 owner who already has a stockpile of brass, and isn't interested in better quality brass. What am I missing?
 
#30 · (Edited)
For Od the choice is a simplified approach. The no fire forming is the plus. You just order up a 6.8 SPC Redding or Forster bushing FL die and run the bushings in it and you are GTG. The only thing that is an extra is one extra pass necking them down from 6.8 to 6 though it can be done in one step. Two steps seems to keep the necks straighter and a bit less stress on the brass.

Drifter. I agree that quality brass is important but the current Silver State stuff is pretty darn good unless I quit being able to read a scale and a micrometer lately. I weighed 50 gases and saw no more than 1.1 grain variance across the board. The flash holes were very god and doing 100 of then generated almost nothing for shavings from any burrs I found.

The advantage over the 243 LBC is that the case head is a tad smaller so the bolt will not be as stressed. The round was not designed to launch 100+ grain bullets. It will handle them at a decent velocity with the current set up. What it's top end is yet we don't know as the Pro Staff is waiting to get their paws on them and shoot the snot out of them as fast as we can work up some solid load data. This one is set up for varmints or deer using 87 grain bullets or less. It will be nice to be able to buy factory ammunition from Tactical Ammunition that is loading them up once everything is settled in load development. The 243 LBC is an easy one to load for and will be sterling for long range heavy bullet work. I may well use one for 1000 yard matches next year though there are some alternative LR cartridges in the wings that are being considered.

I have not talked pressures with BHW so I can't respond to that one. I don't think it is a 62,000 PSI round but it will be upper 50's IMHO.

As it develops we will all learn more.

Greg
 
#31 ·
One further bit of news. I reviewed the numbers on pressure levels that were worked up by an engineer for Ritch. His math shows ante 6X6.8 should operate at 57,600 PSI with no more bolt thrust than the Grendel at 52,000 PSI. That is a big boost in usable thrust.

Greg
 
#32 ·
One further bit of news. I reviewed the numbers on pressure levels that were worked up by an engineer for Ritch. His math shows ante 6X6.8 should operate at 57,600 PSI with no more bolt thrust than the Grendel at 52,000 PSI. That is a big boost in usable thrust.

Greg
You should be able to run it so hard the primers flatten and crater without any concern for the bolt breaking just like with the 6.8.
The 6mm bore is restrictive so you can't get the 6mm 85gr going as fast as a 6.8mm 85gr. out of the same case size.
 
#36 ·
Any updates on how these have been shooting and if it's going to work well with anything over 85gr?
Is BHW going to offer barrels only anytime soon?
 
#37 · (Edited)
My upper should be in my hands on the 20th for shakedown testing. I'm not sure what the time line is on barrel offers is but it won't be vary long from what I here. There is 20,000 pieces of loaded ammo being produced also in the next two months by Tactical Ammunition.

The 1:9 will be the limiting factor on this. I think when you get much past 90 you don't have a usable window for velocity in these smaller cases. I think the 95';s will shoot fine and some short 100's. I think that a VLD might be problematic but I will be trying various types when I get the upper in so I know for sure as opposed to pure conjecture.

Greg
 
#38 · (Edited)
The upper made it yesterday. I ended up with a Black Hole Weaponry 20" stainless 3 R barrel threaded. Ritch Johnson of RPG did the build for me. I furnished an old OLY upper, circa 1984, a CMT/Stag 6.8 BCG and a KIES adjustable gas block. I have not picked out a brake yet so added an EGW thread protector. I mounted up a 24X Leupold I will use for load work ups on top. The lower is one I use on my varmint guns and IPSC 3 Gun matches. DPMS lower, 3 pound Timney trigger and and Ace Skeleton stock. I added the Magpul large trigger guard and selector and a Wilson over-sized bolt release.

Here is what I will be working with.


The brass is ready to go made up out of Silver State using Redding Type S bushing dies. I trimmed the excess neck with a Forster rig.

Range day is Sunday for 70 and 87 grain bullets after break in. I'll be doing a 500 yard F=Class match with my BHW 6X45 on Saturday so I have to wait!!

Thoughts?

Greg
 

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