Optimized Caliber Proposal

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http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallar...1456Schatz.pdf

File size: 7 MB

[dljenson]

Very good, now if our gov. would go with it.

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I found interesting is that although he says he isn't a proponent of any particular cartridge or caliber, on page 1 is a photo of 6.8 SPC, and in the ammo weight comparison on page 11 he also uses 6.8 SPC. (154 rounds lined up so nice and neat. If I tried to do that photo set-up, I'd likely never get them all to stay standing!)

[HTR]

I found interesting is that although he says he isn't a proponent of any particular cartridge or caliber, on page 1 is a photo of 6.8 SPC, and in the ammo weight comparison on page 11 he also uses 6.8 SPC. (154 rounds lined up so nice and neat. If I tried to do that photo set-up, I'd likely never get them all to stay standing!)

Doesn't look like he's a proponent, because he shows a slide that highlights the 6.5 Grendel's high BC and performance, plus he mentions the range of bullets between 6.5 and 7mm more often than he does a particular cartridge.

It just so happens that 6.8 X 43 mm fills almost every role for which they see a need given that they are wondering if we should fight the future's wars with a "250 yard varmint round."

6.8 X 43 mm is no 250 yard varmint round. Good luck to them.

[Clint]

Agree on most all points with the presentation.

It's the same argument, but still true.

Just disappointing that no significant action has been taken.

...the ammo weight comparison on page 11 he also uses 6.8 SPC. (154 rounds lined up so nice and neat. If I tried to do that photo set-up, I'd likely never get them all to stay standing!)

The weight comparison we've done before, but his numbers boil down to:

5 mags of 7.62 = 100 stored kills
6 mags of 6.8 = 150 stored kills
7 mags of 5.56 = 105 stored kills ( assuming two hits are required for a stop )

6.8 is also arguably better out of short barrels and through barriers than either 5.56 or 7.62.

[stanc]

The weight comparison we've done before, but his numbers boil down to:

6 mags of 6.8 = 150 stored kills
7 mags of 5.56 = 105 stored kills ( per current double tap training )

That's something I've wondered about. Do any schools/instructors teach shooting only one shot per target with 6.8? Or do they teach double-tap regardless of caliber?

6.8 is also arguably better out of short barrels and through barriers than either 5.56 or 7.62.

I've seen the photo of the "loaded AK mag" gel test, which clearly shows 6.8 is better through that barrier, at least. But, what testing is there that indicates 6.8 is better than 7.62?

[68WJ]

Generally, I agree with the basis, as I imagine many 6.8 users probabably do since they spent their money to buy into a varient cartridge when it is so easy to just stick with 5.56 only. I wish the author had not used the "Game Changer" term, but that is more due to my general dislike of pop-buzz words.

If there was a cartridge swap, I do agree with his suggestion to train with 5.56 and use the improved cartridge, but only at the basic/boot level and only until current stockpiles of 5.56 are exhausted.

Finally, what does SGLI have to do with cartridge transition?

[-k-]

7 mags of 5.56 = 105 stored kills ( per current double tap training )

I don't care what caliber you are shooting, TRAIN to continue putting holes (as fast as possible, in the right place) in the BG until they go down. "Double taps" are just poor training.

[Ratdog68]

I don't care what caliber you are shooting, TRAIN to continue putting holes (as fast as possible, in the right place) in the BG until they go down. "Double taps" are just poor training.

A BG in Anchorage, AK back in the late 80's pointed a gun at the responding officers from APD. They opened fire on him, but the BG just wouldn't go down. MANY rounds were pumped into him (mostly .45 ACP). When the shooting stopped (empty mags) the guy dropped. He was pinned to the wall by the impact of the rounds continually hitting him until they stopped shooting. LOL (As told to me by one of the officers who'd X-ringed the BG during the exchange).

[Clint]

I don't care what caliber you are shooting, TRAIN to continue putting holes (as fast as possible, in the right place) in the BG until they go down. "Double taps" are just poor training.

^^Agreed.

The point is, with a more effective round like the 6.8, the target will likely go down FASTER, requiring fewer rounds.