Reply With QuoteMore victimless crime victims!
Shameful if true. Throw the book and bookshelf.
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slu...kansas&print=1
Feds target 60 hunters in Kansas hunting probe
By ROXANA HEGEMAN, Associated Press Writer
WICHITA, Kan. (AP)—The Justice Department is targeting more than 60 hunters across the nation for allegedly poaching deer during guided hunts at Camp Lone Star in Kansas, a court document shows.
The scope of the grand jury investigation, believed to be one of the largest criminal prosecutions involving the illegal taking of deer, was made public in a court filing Monday in the federal government’s case against the camp’s owner and his brother, both of Martinsville, Texas.
James Bobby Butler Jr., 41, the owner and operator of the hunting club in Coldwater, Kan., and his brother Marlin Jackson Butler, 36, who worked as a guide, are charged with conspiracy and the unlawful sale and transport of wildlife. James Butler is also charged with obstruction of justice in the 23-count indictment filed May 25 in U.S. District Court in Wichita.
If convicted and given maximum sentences, they could face lengthy prison terms. Jim Cross, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Kansas, said in an e-mail that it was the biggest case of its kind prosecuted in the state.
However, James Butler’s attorney Kurt Kerns calls the legal action “ridiculous.”
“The state of Kansas has paid out over $100,000 to independent contractors to thin the Kansas deer herd for management purposes,” Kerns said in an e-mail. “And now our tax money is being spent making federal cases out of alleged rednecks who supposedly harvest an extra deer.”
Statistics compiled by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service show the nation has 10.3 million big game hunters. About 12 percent, or 1.3 million people, hunt outside of their state of residence. Kansas is a popular destination, drawing an estimated 88,000 out-of-state hunters each year.
Defense attorneys learned during while examining the prosecution evidence in the Butler case that the government recently mailed so-called target letters to many of the out-of-state hunters who came to Camp Lone Star, Kerns said.
Their court filing noted the government alleges more than 60 hunters illegally killed more than 119 deer between the 2005-2008 hunting season, including the taking of 70 trophy white-tail bucks.
Roger Falk, the attorney representing Marlin Butler, said his client has pleaded not guilty but otherwise declined to discuss the allegations made by the government.
Defense attorneys cited the broader grand jury probe in a motion seeking to designate the case as complex, a ruling that would give them more time to prepare their defense without running afoul of speedy trial restrictions. Prosecutors are not opposing that designation, but a hearing on it was set for Friday before U.S. District Judge Wesley Brown.
The defense filing nonetheless provided a rare public glimpse at the grand jury investigation.
Based on the recent target letters sent to individuals identified as subjects of the investigation, the defense motion said it expects those hunters may be testifying soon in front of a federal grand jury and that other indictments would likely follow.
The Butlers are charged with conspiring to violate the Lacey Act, a federal law that prohibits the interstate transport of any wildlife taken in violation of state regulations. The indictment alleges they violated the act by purchasing and selling white-tailed deer and mule deer.
The government alleges the brothers charged out-of-state hunters $3,500 per hunt with archery equipment and $5,000 per hunt with a firearm for guided hunts at Camp Lone Star and some 50,000 nearby acres leased for hunting activities.
Prosecutors allege that during the guided hunts the Butlers and others encouraged hunters to take deer illegally by hunting without a valid license. They’re also accused of letting hunters illegally spotlight deer during night hunts and use illegal equipment, such as firearms during archery season.
The illegal hunting practices allowed the guided hunters to kill more deer than they could have killed lawfully, the lawsuit charges, allowing the Butler brothers to collect more guiding fees and tips.
The obstruction of justice counts involve allegations that James Butler lied to a fish and wildlife agent, told an employee to remove and destroy deer head mounts so they could not used as evidence, and instructed an employee to lie to investigators.
The obstruction of justice charge carries a maximum penalty of up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, while the other felony charges carry a maximum five-year prison term and $250,000 fine. The government is also seeking a $148,250 forfeiture against both men.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." ~ Ammendment X of the U.S. Constitution
Not 6.8 related - read at own risk
More victimless crime victims!
Last edited by olemiss; 09-14-2010 at 11:52 PM.
Liberty is Never Legal
I'm in Wichita. The local news did a piece on this about 20 minutes ago.
60 guys illegally kill 119 deer over a 3 year span? An overpopulated animal? One that has organized EXTERMINATION efforts taken against their population on a fairly regular basis in some areas?
Sorry, I just don't see the justification for the HUGE expense that this has already cost taxpayers and what the undoubtedly lengthy court battle will cost us too.
Slap the out-of-staters with lifetime bans from hunting in KS, and fine the proprietors the equivalent of the hunting license fees they allegedly cheated the state out of.
Not everyone might have known that what they were doing was illegal. If I paid that kind of money for a guided hunt and the guild told me that something was legal (even though it might not have been) I wouldn't think that it was my fault for following my guide's advice. Not saying that this happened but if it did, punishing the hunters wouldn't be right.Originally Posted by Napoleon_Tanerite
There wasn't many details as to what they alledgely did, except for this:
"Prosecutors allege that during the guided hunts the Butlers and others encouraged hunters to take deer illegally by hunting without a valid license. They’re also accused of letting hunters illegally spotlight deer during night hunts and use illegal equipment, such as firearms during archery season."
If they were telling clients that acts that were illegal were in fact legal as a way to increase their profit, then that is bordering on fraud and they should be shut down. Maybe a huge fine (at least as much as they made in their illegal activites), lifetime hunting/guiding ban, and possibly loss of the property (assuming that they are the owners). A lengthy prison sentance might not be in the best insterest here but that is up to the fed's attourney to make that call.
I never saw the thrill in hunting on a "preserve" anyway. I would rather just hunt public land and do my own guiding.
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still comes down to the hunters knowing the rules and regs.
the onus is on the hunters, if they claim stupidity then they are just as guilty.
some states allow landowners to have certain numbers of reserved tags and also some game farms don't even need tags (like those fenced in elk and deer farms in some states) . Would I ever go on a fenced hunt or a farm hunt, NO... I do it the old fashion way of proper pre hunt scouting and then during the hunt I use the appropriate weapon during the appropriate season. Unfortuantely, too many "hunters" are lazy and encourage the kind of behaviour we are seeing in this case.
lifetime hunting bans in KS at a minimum for the 60 hunters (and you need to understand that with this ban in KS many other states are now off limits to them do to reciprocity and other G&F legislation that denies those banned in other states from obtaining a license).
for the guides they should be fined heavily and if criminal intent is proven then they should face the appropriate jail time.
Lifetime member VFW and NRA
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green
Whether they knew what they were doing was illegal or not is irrelevant, remember, it's the responsibility of THE HUNTER to be familiar with all local laws and requirements, to include licensing requirements.
Now, if they were led to believe that they did not need a license to hunt on the specific property of the defendants, that's a different story entirely, and is a much more "gray" area.
Agree that the hunter should know his laws, but if the state hasn't seen fit to prosecute then why does the Federal government see the need to? I fail to see why all of us (as US citizens) should care if a state does or does not enforce its' own poaching laws.
agreed, though since there was interstate commerce involved it does fall under fed jurisdiction. I still think it's incredibly wasteful to cast such a wide net for such a meager payoff. ~120 deer over three years over 60 people (hell, that averages to less than one illegal deer per person per year!). I wish they'd put that much effort into rounding up illegals or solving the budget problems. I won't go further into my opinion on the matter though, since I don't want to turn this into a political thread.
Where's the interstate commerce? The sale of hunts, along with the hunt itself, all took place in a single state. Unless the poachers sold carcasses in other states they did not engage in any interstate transaction.The Feds always claim ANY transaction has interstate implications, even when it patently does not.
On a separate note, the definition of commerce when drafted into the constitution meant trade between large entities (i.e. cities, states, or nations) and not retail transactions. How it morphed into the current "everything having to do with anything including the kitchen sink" definition is an tragedy.
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