Dang Stag is still throwing the first and last rounds.

[Float Pilot]

I hope this photo works. Here is another classic example of what this 16 inch Stag likes to do. In this case there are two first round flyer since I had a failure to feed. And of course the last round flyer from the magazine follower draging on the bolt carrier.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14652&stc=1&d=1235962462

[marinesg1012]

I cant see the pic....

[Float Pilot]

I can..

How weird....

[Awake777]

Because you have linked to a pic hosted on another forum that requires membership in that forum to view.

[Float Pilot]

Dang, I thought I had finally figured out how top post photos on this site...

Back to square one...

The photo shows a 0.68 inch group (7 shots) with two first rounds right next to each other about 1.9 inches below (6 oclock) the main group. The last round from the magazine is about 1 inch away at 4 oclock

[Lastrites]

You should join Photobucket, makes posting pictures almost too darn easy, and it's free.

[Tim_W]

the hyperlink also normally has to end with .jpg

[Tim_W]

Did you try the various suggestions such as shooting them by hand chambering each round and the other suggestions? How did it turn out?

You mention a couple failure to feeds. Did you get the M4 ramps cut in?

[Float Pilot]

Yes.
Single loading gives me a single group, however it is a larger group than those loaded while cycling. That could be from having to continually re-shoulder the rifle.

If I load only one round per mag it is the owrst of both worlds. I get a group about 4 inches across, sometimes 6!

If I load two rounds per mag and shoot 4 or 5 mags in that fashion, I get two larger groups about 6 oclock and 4 oclock from were the rifle normally prints.

I have not yet tried making M4 ramps.... Since I have been thinking about a new longer upper.

[Tim_W]

I am thinking based on what you have stated there its a combo of the mag and the feed ramps but the ramps may be the main culprit. The mag with the tension on either the very first round as the bolt is closed manually with no M4 ramps is causing the first round or two to be slamming into the receiver face and that is changing the seating depth and or bullet runout and neck tension. The things supporting this is the absolutely horrible groups from 1 rnd in the mag for each shot compared to the same single loading but manually which produced tight consistent groups. BTW when you load single with practice you should be able to keep your cheek weld and even site picture. This tech normally will always yield the best groups but you do have to practice it. A mag sled is the best way. If you are really looking for the best for load development this is the way as it takes away the violent loading of a auto. The first round with a loaded mag is manually chambers and at a slightly dif angle and the last round of the mag will act almost like when you single loaded the mag as the tension is the same. Combine all of this with the fact you are getting failure to feeds off and on to me shows that the round are getting beat to crap as they are chambering.

Based on what your middle 7 rounds are grouping it sounds like you have a sub 3/4 MAO load and accuracy from that setup but STAG not providing you with the min standard specs for the ramps on the upper and barrel extension is killing your accuracy and reliability. If y9ou take your time or know someone that is good with metal you can have ramps that are better then even the best factory M4 ramps. You are able to make them extend lower deep and perfectly melded together. Firearm mechanical accuracy = consistency the two terms are synonymous in this area. The more everything is exactly the same shot to shot the tighter the group. With those bullets sometime slamming hard into the receiver and other times going in without as much impact is most of your issues.

You should post the exact load you are using including OAL, trim length, primer, etc.. as that should be a good load for others using the same type STAG uppers. A sub 3/4 moa for 10 rnds in a base line upper is a very good load and good shooting.

[Float Pilot]

Tim,
My e-mail is dragonfly@alaska.net

So I can send you group pics.

[Tim_W]

send to titan at titanarmory.net

[BowDude]

Has anyone else experienced this flier phenomenon?
Gary

[ron169]

Has anyone else experienced this flier phenomenon?
Gary


I tell myself that all my shots are fliers :lol:

[Float Pilot]

Another guy here had some photos of flyers that looked about like mine. He posted them on the original snivel that I duid a month os so back...His rifle was a Stag too as I recall.

I gotta do something about the lack of good feed ramps....

[BowDude]

When I am feeling better perhaps I'll see what mine are doing along those lines.
Gary
PS Nice to see you making a post was kinda missing you for a short while.

[Float Pilot]

I managed to get away into the shop for a couple hours and think I may have made some half-way OK M4 style feed ramps for the Stag.
So they would be M-3.5...

I was looking at how my C-mags feed and those things have the bullet tips going every which direction except straight in...As a result my sloped and polished area kept getting bigger and bigger...

I made up a few dummy rounds and polished the bullets and brass to a mirror shine.
Then I slow and fast loaded them through the action.
The high polish lets me see where the action, ramps or magazines are leaving tiny scratch marks.

I need to work on them a little more today. I only have so many more weekends before flying season really gets going and I do not move as fast as I did many moons ago...