bad day at the range my stag 15 blue up

[dark1]

i was at the range today shooting my stag mod1 after firing about 80 rnds i was in the middle of a rapped fire string at 200 mtrs and BOOM the upper receiver blewup.
the hole reserve was totaled the bolt cracked barrel extension split in 3 places. i am OK just some pouter burns on my hand and some blood blisters on my thumb and it is bused bad.

i was shooting S&B SS109 ammo ... good stuff never had any probs with them so not sure what happened ither a hot load or ... a slow burn ???
any one elts ever have a stag blowup?? if so what did stag say it was ?
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i will have pix of the gun as soon as my dealer sends me the ones he took

[paulosantos]

Wow. The most important thing is that you are OK. The AR is just a piece of metal. Do you remember if the round before that fired OK?

[dark1]

yah it seemed to be ok i was in the zone but i did not notice anything out of the ordinary

i will post the report from stag when they send it tome they sed they will send me a new gun with the same SN :P

[hdglock]

Glad your OK. Sorry to hear about the rifle but it sounds like they are going to take care of it

[Tim_W]

Ok lets work thru this as it takes a tremendous amount of pressure to blow apart a STAG. You said you were firing a at a fast rate of fire correct? So you didn't have a failure to feed or eject and manual chambered another round and then it blew correct?

A load hot enough to blow frag a non-defective barrel extension is normally in excess of 100 PSI.

Normally stuff like this is from a squib load and chambering another round and setting it off whihc creates about 120-150K PSI and hopefully the case or bolt is all that blows.

How many rounds do you have thru this gun, barrel, bolt?

How much of this current lot of ammo have you shoot?

Anyone else have some of the same lot of ammo you know you can check with?

Where were spent cases ejecting at before this happened?

Do you have any of the spent cases from this range session? How do thy look? Any pictures you can post of them along with the gun?

It happens so fast you don't have time to be scared until after the fact when you are counting digits and looking for a mirror to see if you have any frags in you face or parts of it missing. :wink:


I am glad you contacted STAG and they are taking are of it make sure to contact SB as well. If the ammo was OK then there almost had to be a really big issue with STAG and it sounds like it was metallurgical. Defective barrel extension ?

[dark1]

Ok lets work thru this as it takes a tremendous amount of pressure to blow apart a STAG. You said you were firing a at a fast rate of fire correct? So you didn't have a failure to feed or eject and manual chambered another round and then it blew correct? yah i was rnd #7 out of a 10 round string all loaded by the action

A load hot enough to blow frag a non-defective barrel extension is normally in excess of 100 PSI.

Normally stuff like this is from a squib load and chambering another round and setting it off whihc creates about 120-150K PSI and hopefully the case or bolt is all that blows.

How many rounds do you have thru this gun, barrel, bolt? about 500 i just gut the gun in oct when i gut home from iraq

How much of this current lot of ammo have you shoot? only about 80 rnds the first batch of ammo was some wolf 68gr i used to break it in

Anyone else have some of the same lot of ammo you know you can check with? i called S&B they say they have no reports of and probs they asked fore photos of all the ammo i shot today my gunsmith is doing this atm with a wright up , witch i will post when i get it from him

Where were spent cases ejecting at before this happened? they were all in a small groop at about the 3oclock

Do you have any of the spent cases from this range session? How do thy look? Any pictures you can post of them along with the gun? after i picked up the brass there were slight swipes on them but nothing wears then i see on any ss109 i have shot with the army, i am just learning about ammo/presser and soon and stuff i wish i knew more atm so i could give more info i will have pix of the gun and ammo tomorrow probably do not have a camera

It happens so fast you don't have time to be scared until after the fact when you are counting digits and looking for a mirror to see if you have any frags in you face or parts of it missing. :wink: LOL yup


I am glad you contacted STAG and they are taking are of it make sure to contact SB as well. If the ammo was OK then there almost had to be a really big issue with STAG and it sounds like it was metallurgical. Defective barrel extension ?

[dasu]

Tim, what would ejection pattern have to say about a KB?

[JesseJames]

I'm guessing a possible timing issue.

[zoli818]

#1 thing you are OK
I had a bad accident with a ww2 F/A sten it double fed and blew,got 9mm scrap in my face and hand but it was fun to shoot :o
i luv ww2 F/a weapons, :) nothing like shooting a MG42 f/a from the hip at a fridge...rambo aint got nothing on that 8mm LOL

[Tim_W]

Tim, what would ejection pattern have to say about a KB?


Pressure. If the rounds were super hot then the timing would be advanced and th ejection pattern would move from say a normal of 4 O'clock to say 1 O'clock.


Based on no squib load, the description of the cases, and a super low round count, I would say almost positively a defective part of the STAG upper. Probably something with the barrel extension based on the damage you stated.

[dark1]

yah i am just worried now about the rest of the 1k rounds i have from that batch of ammo and the stag 6.8 i am picking up tomorrow i know it was just a fluke but .. can shake you up a little if i had my thumb over like 1/8 of an itch more i would have lost it i know from now on i will be using my front battle grip instead of the mag well even on the bench ofc i will probably be back at the range tomorrow as soon as i pickup the stag 6.8 :) i am a sucker fore punishment i ges might even bring my Mauser with me tomorrow so the pain in my shoulder will over ride my thumb :lol:

[dark1]

o yah thank you all for everything the pix will be up soon and i will post the report from stag once they do there investigation and send it to me
and thank you Tim_W

[Tim_W]

Just picturing you wearing a motorcycle helmet with full body armor on while training thru a tactical shooting course. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[dark1]

LOL nah i have cleared alot of rooms :lol: :lol: i am axuley thinking on sinning up fore the 6.8 class if i can get a car that can drive that far
would like to get involved in tach shooting more then just in the army also but up here in RI there is no place that dos it :cry: just like the longest range here is 200 yards

[ArtFWTx]

#1 thing you are OK
I had a bad accident with a ww2 F/A sten it double fed and blew,got 9mm scrap in my face and hand but it was fun to shoot :o
i luv ww2 F/a weapons, :) nothing like shooting a MG42 f/a from the hip at a fridge...rambo aint got nothing on that 8mm LOL


Zoli... an MG42? Nice, that's like 1200 RPM !!

I am curious to see the pics of the Stag too. At first report I would have said a squib round also. That's happened to me before, but I noticed the difference in recoil before pulling the trigger again. Sure enough, the bullet was in the bore. Too close for comfort. I watched the torture tests on G&A TV and they have successfully fired rounds behind bullets still in the bore in a couple guns and the rifle held together. You never know though. Years ago when I was a kid, a TX DPS trooper family friend had a 357 with a blown up top strap and cylinder from a bad load accident. He kept the pistol mounted in a frame on the wall.

[dark1]

yah the only weird thing is i have never seen a squib load axially fully cycle the weapon and lode a round usually it dose not cycle the gun and someone hand jams the next rnd ? if it is a squib i am just surprised and inbarest i didn't nodes it :cry: i have bin firing ARs fore well over 10 years.
i will let every one know as soon as i get the report back from stag and the pix will be up soon™

[ArtFWTx]

You're right, my squib didn't have the usual recoil and had a muffled retort. The ejection wasn't complete either. Luckily I didn't just do a tap, rack, bang clearance drill because the bullet was definitely in the bore. A cleaning rod with a round tip on it pushed the bullet through the rest of the way. I'm thinking yours either had a horribly overpressured round, maybe a defect in the extension or chamber area could do it also. Who knows? Let us know what you find out though. Stag has a solid warranty so you'll come out fine. Glad you weren't hurt severely.

[marinesg1012]

I have seena few AR's go boom from ammo issues, I am glad you are okay.

[Tim_W]

When you consider you can easily load a round that doesn't cycle the gun yet is still doing over 1200 FPS the chance is 0 that a round that would cycle the gun would still be in the bore. It is also very very doubtful you could pack enough powder into that load to cause this to happen with jsut one round rememeber all his other cases looked fine. Also if it was a hue headspace issue the cases would have shown it. The only answer I can see possible is a defect in the barrel extension or the barrel or something in that area but it had to bee a defect. Rememeber a few years back the bad SAKO barrels that banana peeled back from normal loads. Metallurgical issue. Considering we get most of our steel from china and th quality is spotty at best. The fact this happened in the first100 rounds as well is jsut screaming defect. Maybe a stress crack that let loose finally.

[Empty Brass]

I skimmed all the posts and that sucks dude.

But Please contact S&B too. They might have had a bad run. Never now.
You might have an ammo issue. Most gun kaboomies are ammo related that I have seen. And thats quite a few.

[Tim_W]

Most gun kaboomies are ammo related that I have seen. And thats quite a few.

Man remind me not to shoot with the guys you are around. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The only Kabooms I have ever seen that were not videos but in person were destruction tests done intensionally and had use behind thick concrete walls with remote trigger systems and gun mounting fixtures. Similar to proof house setups.

[marinesg1012]

[quote="Empty Brass":3he1v269] Most gun kaboomies are ammo related that I have seen. And thats quite a few.

Man remind me not to shoot with the guys you are around. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The only Kabooms I have ever seen that were not videos but in person were destruction tests done intensionally and had use behind thick concrete walls with remote trigger systems and gun mounting fixtures. Similar to proof house setups.[/quote:3he1v269]

In boot camp we had two blow up in kids faces one right after another. Then when I worked at OCS we had a couple more blow.

[sgtgrog]

This ammo does appear to have a history of issues. just two cases from the CTD forum......

#1
When I first got these rounds they seemed to be the best bullets for the money. However after shooting them a few times I started to notice that they blew the primers out of the back of the case. The primer came out and went into my trigger assembly and locked up my gun. The other day I went out and started to target practice with my AR-15 and when I shot the 19th round the back of the bullet exploded. After inspecting the gun and bullet I found out that I had ss109 rounds in the clip. The primer had came out of the 18th round and went into the throat of the chamber, throwing the head space off. The other round in the clip also exploded ( glad it was only one round and not more ). Now I have to go out and buy a new bolt for my rifle. So if you have these rounds or are buying these rounds watch out for this problem. (Editor note: Please have your chamber checked for excessive headspace or badly fouled chamber.)

#2
This ammo is of reasonably good quality for the money spent as far as reliability is concerned however as with anything else you get what you pay for. I have fired roughly 60 rounds out of my DPMS AP4 w/16” barrel and have had only 1 issue thus far. Further down you will see a review from “frogman” in which a bullet lost its primer and lodged in the throat of the chamber. I can vouch for this event as it happened to me as well. I have had the weapon inspected by a gunsmith who assures me it was not the weapon’s fault through excessive headspace or a fouled chamber as the weapon is new (less than 400 rounds shot through the weapon) and was adequately lubricated. A member of the team I shoot with is a reloader who mentioned the only way this will happen is if the bullet is overcharged or is poorly made. Please note that in the roughly 60 rounds shot through the new weapon there has been only 1 incident where this occurred thus far. Also of note is the difference in either velocity or grain between this and standard military issue 62gr LC ammunition. It will account for about a 1.5 – 2 inch vertical difference when the rounds are shot at 25 meters.

and the link for the above
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM200-5.html

have also heard all kinds of bad things about steel cased ammo and a hot barrel.....

[Tim_W]

Are those posts from Tactical Forums? Wondering because of the screenname Frogman. If he is one in the same individual I know then I would listen for sure.

[borderpatrol]

I skimmed all the posts and that sucks dude.

But Please contact S&B too. They might have had a bad run. Never now.
You might have an ammo issue. Most gun kaboomies are ammo related that I have seen. And thats quite a few.

I would inspect the ammo too. First, withn a micrometer or caliper measure five to ten loaded round's neck diameter. Let us know what that dimension is. Second, weigh five to ten empty cases after you deprime them. Let us know what they weigh.
I experienced a kaboom with a Vamet 76 .223 around 20 years ago. The ammo was surplus Portugese marked FMN. The chamber on my rifle was minimum SAAMI, the ammo fired fine until the rifle got hot. I fired a round and the blast exited the ejection port. The case head was blown off the round. What happened was the brass was very thick in the neck. Empty cases (deprimed) averaged 100 to 103 grains in weight. That's aboyt 10% heavier than average. One of the cases were ripped in half with the neck still stuck in the chamber. The back half of the case ejected OK, but the next round fed into the chamber that held the neck portion of the last round. I fired the next round not knowing anything was amiss. The bolt obviously wasn't closed because it couldn't close. The entire force of the explosion exited the ejection port. I was struck by fines and blast but no shrapnel hit me. That second bullet stuck in the barrel and the two cases that were in the chamber were formed and annealed together. I was very lucky to say the least. I couldn't see very well for ten minutes and was disgusted with the rifle (which was not to be blamed). The foreign bargain basement ammo was to blame in my case. I now reload exclusively paying extreme attention to safety.

borderpatrol

[ArtFWTx]

You should be a spokesman for shooting glasses now! That was a close one. Glad you didn't get hurt.

Eye protection, ear protection.

[angsniper]

i was at the range today shooting my stag mod1 after firing about 80 rnds i was in the middle of a rapped fire string at 200 mtrs and BOOM the upper receiver blewup.
the hole reserve was totaled the bolt cracked barrel extension split in 3 places. i am OK just some pouter burns on my hand and some blood blisters on my thumb and it is bused bad.

i was shooting S&B SS109 ammo ... good stuff never had any probs with them so not sure what happened ither a hot load or ... a slow burn ???
any one elts ever have a stag blowup?? if so what did stag say it was ?
Dark1 is online now Report Post

i will have pix of the gun as soon as my dealer sends me the ones he took

Any pics yet?

[dark1]

No not yet :( i am going to stop by the gun shop tomorrow and remind him he has the gun and all the pix of it atm he is beginning to piss me off he was saposto e mail me them a weak ago