300BLK not cycling

[Bugg77]

My 8" 300BLK isn't picking up the next round or locking back on an empty mag. I've checked the bolt carrier and it slides freely in the upper. I thought I had this fixed with this one, but it seems to be back. I suspect it may be underpowered Remington ammo, but I want to make sure I check everything. I'm currently running supersonic, unsuppressed and it will eject the round but won't pick up the next. I'm going to check the gas block to make sure it is lined up and make sure the bcg slides freely into the buffer tube, but what else should I check. I'm also found to try some different ammo to see if I get better results.

I should be getting my suppressor next week and I suspect it will run fine when suppressed, but it should also run fine when using unsuppressed supersonic.

I suppose I could ask this question on the BLK forum but I just didn't care for a lot of that crowd.

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[68WJ]

Have you tried other mags or applied manual pressure to the bolt release? I would think that a barrel designed for subs should cycle supers fine, but it is a fast powder cartridge that drops off quickly.

[sneedb82]

What barrel is it?


Brandon

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[-k-]

Check for any drag, then take out the bolt and make sure the carrier key goes onto the gas tube with minimal contact. The short gas tube is not able to flex like a long one does, so alignment is more important.

Check that the gas block has not moved.

Try a known good carrier.

[Jamesb74]

What weight buffer?

I would try different ammo
Different mags and see if that helps.

Also like you said check the gas block.


Sent from my island villa by carrier pigeon.

[Bugg77]

It's a Noveske barrel and a carbine buffer.

I tried several different magazines, including ones that previously functioned fine.

The only things that changed were that I duracoated the rifle and I think I might have been using different ammo.

Thanks for the tips, I'll be checking things today and getting to the range tomorrow.

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[BradL45]

One of my 16 inch Blackout barrels(not Noveske) needed one weight taken out of a regular carbine buffer to get it to work smooth.

[HTR]

All good advice here. With a faster powder and a weaker charge, as is c/w Remington ammo, if you run that gun unsuppressed, I can easily see it short stroking, and not locking the mag back. Gas tube alignment is indeed important but if its a pinned Noveske gas block, I would guess its already GTG.

I will bet that once you put a can on it, it will run the supers perfectly, especially with better ammo.

Hope that helps

[HTR]

One of my 16 inch Blackout barrels(not Noveske) needed one weight taken out of a regular carbine buffer to get it to work smooth.

I would guess that with 8" pistol gas, you should be able to run a std carbine buffer and have it cycle reliably, provided that the gas is adequate, and tube and key alignment is good.

[KillinSwede]

Bugg- did you get the cycling issue resolved? Have you purchased any of those Barnes blacktips that just came out? I bought a box and am looking for an NFA friendly range to shoot them at.

[Bugg77]

I checked last night and didn't find any friction points. Everything moves pretty freely and the gas block I'd pinned so I'm really leaning towards an ammo problem.
Tomorrow, I'm going to try combinations of a lighter buffer, multiple mags, and different ammo. I plan to leave this thing suppressed but I really think it should still function unsuppressed.

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[floyd2111]

The gas port in the barrel may be to small

It just sounds like a gas problem. I had the same problem with a AR 10 in 308 all I did was drill out the gas port on the barrel by .0045 of an inch and it worked flawless after that.

[Bugg77]

It think it is a combo of magazines and ammo. The 110gr black tips and 125gr pink tips all cycled reliably. I think the umc ammo may just be underpowered. I'm not terribly inclined to be drilling out my gas port, but it probably wouldn't take much to get it running fully.

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[Maryland_Shooter]

OK, these things are a PITA. IMHO, everyone jumped into the game without sufficient R&D on this gas port issue. IIRC FN makes the Noveske barrels.

A properly made 300 BLK should run in all 4 scenarios, subsonic ammo unsuppressed, sub suppressed, supersonic suppressed and supersonic unsuppressed.

Sadly, few do . . . .

Me? I'd send it back to Noveske if it was an upper. Drill that port = no warranty.

Otherwise you are left with buffer, BCG, buffer spring . . .

My advice - start with supersonic ammo and a quality mag - like a Pmag. Just put one in, fire it and the bolt should lock open, now try with a can - should be the same result, try subs with a can = should be the same result, lastly, subs with no can.

What you need to figure out is if it is over or under gassed. With the 300 BLK, it's a pretty good guess it's undergassed.

I probably missed the exact build length, gas port length, but a cursory google shows some others having the same same issue here and there with Noveske.

I bought an upper from CORE15 and among it's other issues, it didn't cycle properly. At that point I had one SBR lower and 2 SBR uppers, so no way I was modifying a working SBR lower wedded to my 6.8. I now have 2 SBR lowers and CAN modify the one to my 9½" SBR in 300 BLK. I still prefer to get it running with a standard H2 buffer and consequently, drilled the gas port to .1065.

I think I have it it, but need to more testing. The other caveat I can offer is that once a rifle heats up a bit, it can and does affect cycling.

Where does it stand right now?

ETA: I re-read the thread - 8" Noveske - not sure if it is a complete upper or a barrel. REM ammo is indeed weak and I got very inconsistent results using a chrono. Naturally it didn't cycle properly.

[Bugg77]

OK, these things are a PITA. IMHO, everyone jumped into the game without sufficient R&D on this gas port issue. IIRC FN makes the Noveske barrels.

A properly made 300 BLK should run in all 4 scenarios, subsonic ammo unsuppressed, sub suppressed, supersonic suppressed and supersonic unsuppressed.

Sadly, few do . . . .

Me? I'd send it back to Noveske if it was an upper. Drill that port = no warranty.

Otherwise you are left with buffer, BCG, buffer spring . . .

My advice - start with supersonic ammo and a quality mag - like a Pmag. Just put one in, fire it and the bolt should lock open, now try with a can - should be the same result, try subs with a can = should be the same result, lastly, subs with no can.

What you need to figure out is if it is over or under gassed. With the 300 BLK, it's a pretty good guess it's undergassed.

I probably missed the exact build length, gas port length, but a cursory google shows some others having the same same issue here and there with Noveske.

I bought an upper from CORE15 and among it's other issues, it didn't cycle properly. At that point I had one SBR lower and 2 SBR uppers, so no way I was modifying a working SBR lower wedded to my 6.8. I now have 2 SBR lowers and CAN modify the one to my 9½" SBR in 300 BLK. I still prefer to get it running with a standard H2 buffer and consequently, drilled the gas port to .1065.

I think I have it it, but need to more testing. The other caveat I can offer is that once a rifle heats up a bit, it can and does affect cycling.

Where does it stand right now?

ETA: I re-read the thread - 8" Noveske - not sure if it is a complete upper or a barrel. REM ammo is indeed weak and I got very inconsistent results using a chrono. Naturally it didn't cycle properly.

I don't have much of an update. I actually got my suppressor over a week ago and haven't been able to get to the range to function check.

Since I haven't had a chance to use the suppressor, I have had absolutely zero success in getting it to reliably lock on an empty magazine (PMAG-20, PMAG-30, or CPD-30) using several different types of ammo (Remington, Atlanta Ammo Pink Tips, Southwest Ammo Black Tips). I haven't tried the Remington subsonics yet, but I wonder if it will even extract the round.

It is just the barrel so I suppose I could get in touch with Noveske, but I've also "painted" the barrel with Lauer Duracoat (I left the gas block in place during "painting"). I don't know if/why that would affect function but it may have voided any warranty on the barrel.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/james_m_l/The Armory/jim-7.jpg

[-k-]

What type of LH system it that?

[Bugg77]

What type of LH system it that?

Todd,

It is a BHW LH upper. They use a railed bolt and I have double and triple checked it for any signs of friction and the whole thing slides smoothly. I just took the upper apart so I could look to see if any of the duracoat got under the gas block but the gas port was completely clear.

Should I give you guys a call to see if there's anything else to try. I'd be happy to send the barrel back but I'm not sure it would do you any good without the rest of the upper.

[KillinSwede]

My standard for the 300BLK is not very high. So far my Noveske 12.5" barrel is cycling the 110 BlackTips really well with excellent accuracy (1.5" group) at 100 yards. If those same rounds work well suppressed I will keep upper and use it like you would a 30-30. All of the suppression issues- changes in points of impact, cycling, loss of energy is becoming less and less appealing. If I need to shoot something really quiet I'll break out my .22 with subsonic ammo. Novelty that is fun to watch but the investment of research isn't worth it for me. It seems like the 300BLK is trying to be too many things to too many folks.

[Bugg77]

My standard for the 300BLK is not very high. So far my Noveske 12.5" barrel is cycling the 110 BlackTips really well with excellent accuracy (1.5" group) at 100 yards. If those same rounds work well suppressed I will keep upper and use it like you would a 30-30. All of the suppression issues- changes in points of impact, cycling, loss of energy is becoming less and less appealing. If I need to shoot something really quiet I'll break out my .22 with subsonic ammo. Novelty that is fun to watch but the investment of research isn't worth it for me. It seems like the 300BLK is trying to be too many things to too many folks.

Swede, I don't think I have too high of a standard for my 300BLK. All I want is reliable cycling with supersonic ammo (whether suppressed or not). If I could get that and reliable cycling with subsonic suppressed then I'd be as happy as could be. I think the accuracy will be sufficient for the range of hunting I would need. I don't think that is too much to ask and it is the reason I chose the Noveske barrel. I'm sure Noveske will help me out in whatever reasonable manner they can. It fits somewhere between my imginary 5.56 and my beloved 6.8s. The only problem is I don't have enough time to spend with each of them.

[Maryland_Shooter]

I don't have much of an update. I actually got my suppressor over a week ago and haven't been able to get to the range to function check.

Since I haven't had a chance to use the suppressor, I have had absolutely zero success in getting it to reliably lock on an empty magazine (PMAG-20, PMAG-30, or CPD-30) using several different types of ammo (Remington, Atlanta Ammo Pink Tips, Southwest Ammo Black Tips). I haven't tried the Remington subsonics yet, but I wonder if it will even extract the round.

It is just the barrel so I suppose I could get in touch with Noveske, but I've also "painted" the barrel with Lauer Duracoat (I left the gas block in place during "painting"). I don't know if/why that would affect function but it may have voided any warranty on the barrel.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/james_m_l/The Armory/jim-7.jpg

I think we all know Noveske isn't voiding a warranty for paint. Sad as it may be, you (or Noveske) is gonna have to take off the GB and see what size that gas port is. I typically use a set of machinist bits and check the hole with the shank of the bit.

The GP size seems to be something of a trade secret or something, AAC never says, Wilson does, not sure of Noveske's position on that information.

The 300BLK needs to really be done . . . I hate to say "right" giving the impression Noveske isn't doing it right, but it seems to me, once you get your hands on one, you have to get it running on the lower you have for it, tweak it as far as possible using standard parts (buffer, spring, BCG) and as a last resort either custom tweak it (one poster took a single weight out of an ST-2 buffer IIRC) or drill the danged port. I drilled mine, but still not certain it is 100% yet.

I am at .1065, but have heard others as large as . . . oh I forget - was it .115?

Have to look around - there was a thread "over there" where a guy bought a CORE15 barrel, had to drill it.

You'd think it'd be easy as pie turning out barrels that run in all scenarios, but from my experience and observations, it's not as easy as it seems.

BUT - look on the bright side. I like puzzles and challenges. One I have it, I have it.

I played with a 6.8 SPC cut to 12.3" with a middy gas system . . . took a bit, but it runs and so will my 300 BLK and yours.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Swede, I don't think I have too high of a standard for my 300BLK. All I want is reliable cycling with supersonic ammo (whether suppressed or not). If I could get that and reliable cycling with subsonic suppressed then I'd be as happy as could be. I think the accuracy will be sufficient for the range of hunting I would need. I don't think that is too much to ask and it is the reason I chose the Noveske barrel. I'm sure Noveske will help me out in whatever reasonable manner they can. It fits somewhere between my imginary 5.56 and my beloved 6.8s. The only problem is I don't have enough time to spend with each of them.

Worst case, send the upper to me for proper dosposal.

Seriously - you and Noveske can sort it out.

[Bugg77]

Worst case, send the upper to me for proper dosposal.

Seriously - you and Noveske can sort it out. lol... like I said, I'm sure Todd and the Noveske team will get me squared away.

I'm not at all upset or anything, just trying to solve the "puzzle" and hopefully learn a few things in the process.

[Maryland_Shooter]

lol... like I said, I'm sure Todd and the Noveske team will get me squared away.

I'm not at all upset or anything, just trying to solve the "puzzle" and hopefully learn a few things in the process.

Good attitude - like I said, Todd will get you squared away

[Team Helotes]

With my 30HRT I had to drill out the port 1 number bit at a time till I got it to work. It is not that big of a deal to do.

[-k-]

It is a BHW LH upper.
Does it use a Stag BCG or DPMS? The Stag LH bolt unlocks in the opposite direction and really should have one of their Ambi barrel extensions with the lugs chamfered on both sides. I have not seen any serious problems, but if it does cause a problem I would expect to see it on a short barrel.

Give us a call, they may want the entire upper or rifle so we can try to see what isn't working right.

[Bugg77]

With my 30HRT I had to drill out the port 1 number bit at a time till I got it to work. It is not that big of a deal to do.

I think you just volunteered yourself to help me ;)

I actually remember reading your posts about how you drilled out the ports. If for some reason I can't get it working after Noveske takes a turn at it, I may come to you for some assistance as I am low on tools to do this kind of work.

[Maryland_Shooter]

With my 30HRT I had to drill out the port 1 number bit at a time till I got it to work. It is not that big of a deal to do.

Agreed, it's not. Get a decent set of machinist bits, drill, test, drill test.

I just think (and rightly so) people are a bit hesitant to drill holes in barrels; if you go too large, ya can't undrill the thing, but you can mount an adjustable gas block, or actually make your own.

[Maryland_Shooter]

I think you just volunteered yourself to help me ;)

I actually remember reading your posts about how you drilled out the ports. If for some reason I can't get it working after Noveske takes a turn at it, I may come to you for some assistance as I am low on tools to do this kind of work.

I'd also be willing to offer some help if you need it.

[Bugg77]

Does it use a Stag BCG or DPMS? The Stag LH bolt unlocks in the opposite direction and really should have one of their Ambi barrel extensions with the lugs chamfered on both sides. I have not seen any serious problems, but if it does cause a problem I would expect to see it on a short barrel.

Give us a call, they may want the entire upper or rifle so we can try to see what isn't working right.

Thanks -k-. I'll give you a call in about an hour. I'm pretty sure it is a Stage BCG but I'll have to take another look to see if I can tell. Hoping I can get it to work with this upper because I really don't want to have to duracoat a new right handed receiver.

[Team Helotes]

It was easy just took time. Drill, put it all back together, fire, tear it down, drill repeat. I hve a troy gas block so it was easy with 2 set screws. I only screwed thhe rail back on hand tight. If you do it just chuck the drill bit in as far as you can, it will keep it short enough to not hit the other side of the bore.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Does it use a Stag BCG or DPMS? The Stag LH bolt unlocks in the opposite direction and really should have one of their Ambi barrel extensions with the lugs chamfered on both sides. I have not seen any serious problems, but if it does cause a problem I would expect to see it on a short barrel.

Give us a call, they may want the entire upper or rifle so we can try to see what isn't working right.

I learn something everyday . . . .

[Maryland_Shooter]

It was easy just took time. Drill, put it all back together, fire, tear it down, drill repeat. I hve a troy gas block so it was easy with 2 set screws. I only screwed thhe rail back on hand tight. If you do it just chuck the drill bit in as far as you can, it will keep it short enough to not hit the other side of the bore.

I put a wooden dowel inside my barrels, supposed to cut down on burrs.

[Bugg77]

Made a quick trip to the local indoor range (which I usually avoid) just to do some function checks. As previously reported, no lock-back with any of the ammo tried (Rem, Pink Tips, Black Tips, or Subsonic). I then tried it with my suppressor. All of the supersonic ammo resulted in repeated successful lock-backs and cycling. The subsonic suppressed was inconsistent in that it didn't lock back at all and only picked up the next round ~50% of the time.

Sure sounds like it is undergassed to me. ETA: I suppose it could also be a timing issue but part of that is the gas system. Chicken vs Egg?

[KillinSwede]

how much did suppressor change point of impact if you remember with the supersonics?

[Maryland_Shooter]

Made a quick trip to the local indoor range (which I usually avoid) just to do some function checks. As previously reported, no lock-back with any of the ammo tried (Rem, Pink Tips, Black Tips, or Subsonic). I then tried it with my suppressor. All of the supersonic ammo resulted in repeated successful lock-backs and cycling. The subsonic suppressed was inconsistent in that it didn't lock back at all and only picked up the next round ~50% of the time.

Sure sounds like it is undergassed to me. ETA: I suppose it could also be a timing issue but part of that is the gas system. Chicken vs Egg?

Undergassed IMHO. Drill in very small increments, test - repeat as needed. That's what I have done. Noveske offered to have a look, your call.

[Bugg77]

Undergassed IMHO. Drill in very small increments, test - repeat as needed. That's what I have done. Noveske offered to have a look, your call.

I have a call in to Noveske and am waiting for someone to call me back. I just like to try to do as much troubleshooting/testing as possible before calling the manufacturer for help. That way, I have lots of data and can help them speed up their evaluation process.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Agreed, but I'd lean towards letting them handle it. The 9.5" BLK I bough was from an outfit that I was not impressed with, so I just did it myself.

[Bugg77]

how much did suppressor change point of impact if you remember with the supersonics?

I wasn't shooting for accuracy so I didn't pay too much attention, but IIRC, there was almost zero POI shift at 25 and 50 yards.


Agreed, but I'd lean towards letting them handle it. The 9.5" BLK I bough was from an outfit that I was not impressed with, so I just did it myself.

I have a lot of respect for the Noveske guys so I'm definitely going to let them have a shot at it before I try enlarging the gas port.

[Maryland_Shooter]

I have a lot of respect for the Noveske guys so I'm definitely going to let them have a shot at it before I try enlarging the gas port.

Smart move IMHO

[KillinSwede]

Bugg- are you running an adjustable gas block?

[Bugg77]

Bugg- are you running an adjustable gas block?

No, this build used a Noveske barrel and gas block which are supposed to run supersonic unsuppressed, and subsonic/supersonic suppressed without the need for an adjustable gas block.

I spoke to Noveske today and they told me to make sure I'm using an H1 buffer and mil-spec action (buffer) spring because that is what they designed it to. I've ordered them and will test again when they get here. If that doesn't work, I'll ship the whole thing off to Noveske to have them look at it.

[KillinSwede]

I have a Noveske barrel with their gas block that is not adjustable so that got me thinking. This is interesting watching you work through this.

[Bugg77]

I have a Noveske barrel with their gas block that is not adjustable so that got me thinking. This is interesting watching you work through this.

Ha! I'm glad you can enjoy my pain!
Even though I'm having trouble, it still worked well enough for me to put a hole in a raccoon a couple weeks ago.

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[burky]

I have run into that problem with alot of my build's and It always seams to end up with the gas block not ajustied or the buffer tube assembly. most the time gas hole in barrel not lining up on gas block.

[Bugg77]

I have run into that problem with alot of my build's and It always seams to end up with the gas block not ajustied or the buffer tube assembly. most the time gas hole in barrel not lining up on gas block.

This is a pinned gas block so it is a challenge to have it be misaligned... unless it was pinned incorrectly from the "factory".

Definitely going to try the buffer and buffer spring combo before sending it back to them.

[Bugg77]

Well, I just got back from the range and I tried two different sets of mil-spec springs and two different H1 buffers but I get the same result. Looks like I'll be sending it off to Noveske on Monday for some TLC. Hopefully they can get it fixed and back to me without too much trouble.

[KillinSwede]

Bugg- do you see any scenario where you wouldn't suppress this thing? I read back through the thread again and it appears that when suppressed, this thing is locking back as it should. With your trove of suppressors (and an 8" barrel) I can't imagine you leaving a suppressor in your bag when using this beast. You did an awesome job on the paint.

[Bugg77]

Bugg- do you see any scenario where you wouldn't suppress this thing? I read back through the thread again and it appears that when suppressed, this thing is locking back as it should. With your trove of suppressors (and an 8" barrel) I can't imagine you leaving a suppressor in your bag when using this beast. You did an awesome job on the paint.

Thanks. I'm getting a lot of compliments on the paint job.

While I plan to always run it suppressed, I want it to work without a suppressor so that the reliability of the rifle isn't dependent on a single, very expensive, hard to replace part.

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[no.one.special]

Quick question Bugg...I've been wondering which is quieter; your 8 inch Blk or your...ummm I don't recall what length sbr you have in 6.8, can you give me an educated guess? thanks

[Bugg77]

Quick question Bugg...I've been wondering which is quieter; your 8 inch Blk or your...ummm I don't recall what length sbr you have in 6.8, can you give me an educated guess? thanks

I've never really paid attention to compare the two but neither would be fun without either a suppressor or hearing protection.

The 300BLK is dang quiet when suppressed. I should have 6.8 suppressor in a few weeks. Maybe I'll take my sound meter out and test them all suppressed and unsuppressed. It won't be scientific but it could be good enough for a ballpark idea.

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[Maryland_Shooter]

That would actually be nice to know.

[Bugg77]

The guys at Noveske work fast! My rifle was received around Noon and by 3PM they had it diagnosed, fixed, packed and ready to ship back to me. I don't have the full details of what was fixed but I know there's a new buffer spring and an H2 buffer. It doesn't sound like they drilled out the gas port.

I'll have it back next Thursday so I'll make time to get to the range and test it out.

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[KillinSwede]

that sort of customer service needs to be remembered the next time some dude with a post count under 20 complains about how his credit card was billed. Good job Noveske.

[Bugg77]

that sort of customer service needs to be remembered the next time some dude with a post count under 20 complains about how his credit card was billed. Good job Noveske.

I'm just hoping it still works when I get it back. You know how these things go when you take your car to a mechanic. I'm sure he had it working so hopefully I won't do something to muck it up.

As far as service goes, I couldn't be happier. I only bought a barrel from them and all they charged me for was a new spring and an H2 buffer. No shop fees or anything. They could have told me that since they just sold me the barrel that I would have to figure it out myself. Now let's all keep our fingers crossed for a favorable range report at the end of next week.

[Bugg77]

Good news everyone! My heroes at Noveske got my 300BLK running nice and smooth... even with Remington ammo. It will now cycle and lock back on an empty mag reliably on supersonic suppressed or unsuppressed and on subsonic suppressed.

My buffer spring was too strong (should have been a mil-spec spring), and I had a slightly leaky carrier. I need to call Joel at Noveske and thank him. I also need to find out what you do for a leaky carrier?

Thanks Noveske! Y'all rock!