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View Full Version : 300 Blackout vs 7.62X39



charlieb
03-17-2012, 11:40 PM
What is the benefit of the 300 Blackout over the 7.62x39mm? I know the 7.62 has some issues with accurately feeding in the AR Platform, but otherwise what benefits.

Bugg77
03-18-2012, 12:23 AM
You can use google to see the ballistics and terminal performance. Aside from that, the 300blk only needs a new barrel to work in the AR platform and is a good choice for a short barrel and reliable subsonic cycling in an AR.



Tapatalk on Thunderbolt

BradL45
03-18-2012, 12:32 AM
I wish 300 BLK ammo was as cheap as x39 ammo.

Lots of 30 cal bullets to pick from for the 300 BLK, even surplus and pulls.

The 300 BLK works well in the AR15 platform, some ARs run x39 like water too. If I had a stock pile of x39 ammo, I would build an upper for it.

chickasaw_hunter
03-18-2012, 12:29 PM
I have a x39 AR upper and have had no problems at all with it. I had more problems with my 6.8 feeding. I think using the right magazine has a lot to do with it. I've only used the 10 round Cproducts and ASC mags, since this is a hunting rifle for me, I've not tried the 30 round mags. But the x39 works pretty slick in my AR, and shoot the cheapie rusky ammo better than I expected. CH

ArtFWTx
03-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Check out Rock River Arms new 7.62x39 rifle and lower that uses AK MAGS. That should help reliability that some x39 AR mags have demonstrated. Depends on your use. Plinking and end of world stockpiling get the Russian. Trendy tacticool go with the BO.

rsilvers
03-21-2012, 01:14 PM
Works in AR mags.
Uses standard bullet diameter.
Cheaper brass.
Uses normal bolt, which is both more common and stronger than 7.62x39mm bolt.
Has subsonic which cycles and rifles use a twist which is compatible with both subsonic and full power ammo.
More reliable feeding.
AK ammo sometimes has primers which require a special hammer spring which is not good to also share with a 223 upper.
Lots of high performance ammo coming out - which for some reason never did for the 7.62x39mm - probably because of the economy-oriented customer base of 7.62x39mm.

346CI
03-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Works in AR mags.
Uses standard bullet diameter.
Cheaper brass.
Uses normal bolt, which is both more common and stronger than 7.62x39mm bolt.
Has subsonic which cycles and rifles use a twist which is compatible with both subsonic and full power ammo.
More reliable feeding.
AK ammo sometimes has primers which require a special hammer spring which is not good to also share with a 223 upper.
Lots of high performance ammo coming out - which for some reason never did for the 7.62x39mm - probably because of the economy-oriented customer base of 7.62x39mm.

Works in AR mags? Yup, some do without needing mods.
Uses standard bullet diameter? Yup, can use most .308 bullets. Not all will be accurate or be sent with authority(power)
Cheap brass? You won't get cheaper than 5.56 or AK, factor in forming used 5.56 brass and the costs go out the window due to time spent on the extra steps.
Bolt? Depends on what bolt you use. I've seen cheap 5.56 bolts break.
Subsonic? No we are getting to what the 300 is good at
Feeding? If you mags don't need to be modded
AK primers? When ammo is cheap and from the 60s/70s, you might have a click every so often
High performance? That could be subjective. Not a term I associate with the 300. No need for hype inflated AK ammo, the cheap FMJ stuff works and 123 soft points kill deer dead. Isn't that what the 300 is marketed for, economic?

Help me out, I'm trying find a use for the 300 over using a 5.56 or X39. So far all I come up with is shooting subs out of a 8" barreled SBR with a can.....

ArtFWTx
03-21-2012, 08:13 PM
Works in AR mags. According to glossy magazine ads.
Uses standard bullet diameter. Plenty of AK diameter bullets available also. Hornady didn't have a problem manufacturing 7.62x39 ammo?
Cheaper brass. But definitely not "CHEAPER AMMO"....
Uses normal bolt, which is both more common and stronger than 7.62x39mm bolt. That's debatable with current manufacturers of 7.62x39 bolts, some made of better quality steels. Plus no verifiable statistics that show the 7.62x39 bolts are breaking, properly manufactured ones.
Has subsonic which cycles and rifles use a twist which is compatible with both subsonic and full power ammo. Have a suppressor? No...then ignore this line.
More reliable feeding. Another debatable fact. Many have reliable 7.62x39 ARs with mags tweaked just like tweaking BO mags. Now RRA has a specialized Russian AK mag using AR lower. Could be the game changer.
AK ammo sometimes has primers which require a special hammer spring which is not good to also share with a 223 upper. Note the use of the word "sometimes", which comes in handy as an "escape clause" when some report having no issues.
Lots of high performance ammo coming out - which for some reason never did for the 7.62x39mm - probably because of the economy-oriented customer base of 7.62x39mm. High performance? 2200 fps? REALLY? See above about cheaper 7.62x39 ammo.

Notice: Above post written by biased source who's employment involves the 300 BO.

BradL45
03-21-2012, 09:25 PM
Help me out, I'm trying find a use for the 300 over using a 5.56 or X39. So far all I come up with is shooting subs out of a 8" barreled SBR with a can.....

We all have different uses for the rifles we buy. The 6.8 kick ass, I love my uppers and barrels in 6.8 from H.,

The Blackout gives me a cheaper training option, I bought some M118 pulls for less than 10 cents each, not a game bullet, but fun to put holes in targets and they hit the rocks with enough authority to see impacts 400M away. Tracer rounds trying to hit steel at 1000M is loads of fun. I convert my own Brass, my US GI and Lancer mags run my loads without issue.

I shoot supers, I'll get a can in the future, and I'll still shoot supers through it. I've been loading the Barnes 110 TTSX LV, it shoots straight, and expands below 1500fps IIRC, for my use it's geared more toward 2 legged vermin. 300 BLK 8 inch barreled rifles fit into an Erblestock X3 Lo-drag or Gunslinger II without the scabbard lowered below the pack, I wish my 12.5 6.8 did that, it still fits in the pack, 4 inches sticking out the top, or drop the scabbard at the bottom of the to have none of the rifle stick above teh pack.

I've shot many yotes with the Blackout, and loosing the brass doesn't sting. I've moved to 6x45 shooting yotes this spring, it kicks the yotes ass too. I have my 6.5PCC back, it's in line to zap some yotes in the coming week.

I still shoot 5.56 more than all the other variants I have, Wolf WPA is almost cheap, and any trigger time is good time. The Blackout does offer better Barrier blind vs the 5.56 with the new Barnes bullet, I still don't have any factory ammo to test yet. I've been shooting 147FMJs too, they buzz right through a phone pole the 5.56 gets stuck in. I've been to cheap to go buy cement blocks to test against, damn building supplies are way to expensive to go shoot.

I use a 16 inch 6.8 for deer, stacking the deck on a 1 week hunt, once a year is fine by me.

Hunting, 6.8 for me, 300 BLK- training, and fun range time, PDW(I think one of it's best assets), 5.56, training, and having a blast shooting Wolf WPA ammo!!!!!!!!!, didn't have to load it, and no Brass to process to reload again. The Blackout might not be for everyone, but I'm glad we have many good choices in the AR-15 platform.

7.62x39 ammo isn't as cheap as it used to be, I won a SKS at a pistol match, and ammo was sub $100 for 1200-1400 rounds, timing was perfect, we used to be over run with Jack rabbits, and running them down with the SKS was always a good time with friends, currently I'm x39 lesshttp://68forums.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.png Blackout is easy to load for(I use a x39 powder funnel in my Dillon Presses,lol), and some pulled bullets are cheap to use.

The Blackout still needs more bullets developed for PD and Hunting, things take time, the 6.8 now has many great bullets, 85TSX, 95 TTSX, 110 Accubonds, Hor 110 BTHP and the 120SST, I can wait to see what comes out next for the Blackout. Someone with a nice AK, should be set in that power range, they ROCK too.

346CI
03-21-2012, 09:47 PM
Great non-biased report Brad, thanks.

Bugg77
03-21-2012, 10:00 PM
Notice: Above post written by biased source who's employment involves the 300 BO.

While I am no rsilvers apologist and I take issue with a lot of what he says and how he says it I will add the following about the 300BLK:

I have 6 or so unmodified PMAGs in 20 and 30 round varieties and I have not had any feeding or reliability problems using both handloads and the factory UMC loads. The UMC ammo seems to be going for around $13/box when you include shipping and the hunting worthy rounds are around the same cost as the 6.8SPC. I've never looked into the 7.62x39 so I can't say how those costs compare.

As for the high performance comment, I'm not really sure what high performance ammo is. Does that mean fast? Expands at low velocities? High rate of fragmentation? 1/2 MOA accuracy? Maybe the better way to say it is there is a variety of intended use ammo coming out. The 6.8 is still my caliber of choice for most of my uses but the 300BLK provides some interesting (to me) alternative uses that the 5.56 wouldn't satisfactorily fill.

RUTGERS95
03-22-2012, 10:49 PM
Brad, how is the bo cheaper for training when there is nothing cheaper than 5.56? I'm not following.

I still can't see the benefit of the bo vs just a regular 7.62x39. The Russian is still cheap, reliable, ballistics are not dramatically different and I shoot it far cheaper than the bo. I just don't see it other than the parts commonality of the ar?

ac6916170
03-22-2012, 11:05 PM
Buzz through a phone pole? Ya'll have some skinny ass phone poles.

BradL45
03-23-2012, 12:01 AM
Brad, how is the bo cheaper for training when there is nothing cheaper than 5.56? I'm not following.

I still can't see the benefit of the bo vs just a regular 7.62x39. The Russian is still cheap, reliable, ballistics are not dramatically different and I shoot it far cheaper than the bo. I just don't see it other than the parts commonality of the ar?

I shoot lots of Wolf WPA 5.56 ammo, for training, it's good stuff in my book. ~$220 delivered/1k

5.56 vs the BLK in the SD role, I don't have the factory 110 TTSX LV in factory ammo yet, the Blackout is NOT in the SD or PDW role yet.
The 110 TTSX Blackout round should be a great SD round, Barrier blind, expansion, and penetration. I havn't shopped for SD ammo in the x39 round, but I'd guess a Barnes TSX or TTSX would rock too.

The Blackout, it's a different weapon system than the 5.56, training will show sub-standard performance, from reliability(of many componets), to sub-par ammo. With the cheap pulls, it is cheaper to reload and shoot than the 6.8. Recoil impluse is different, site recovery is different. I also have lots of 5.56 brass, and I've converted many to 300 BLK cases for my use. I bet I am really close in cost reloading for the 300 BLK vs buying x39 ammo, I do loose some time, but 1050's are pretty quick.

I use 6.8's in the home defense role now, and 5.56 as backup/bug out systems, 85TSX is stuffed in lots of mags.

Shooting indoors, big difference in blast with the 6.8 vs the 300 BLK, and the BLK offers a nice compromise between the 5.56 and 6.8, and my 8 inch Blackouts fit perfect in my X3 Lo-drag and GunslingerII Back packs.

We are an AR15 home(and we have an extended AR15 family too), lots of 5.56s and no AK's, the Blackout makes more sense here due to Magazines, and lots of AR parts, and Brass. With 125 Ballistic tips, it's sub MOA, and the Blackout is reliable in my systems. More AR's(in any caliber), is always better in my book!!! Commonality is a huge plus for us. My daughters are not really the type that buy guns and ammo, but they know AR's, and knowing one rifle platform Well has it's pluses.

I still shoot at 3gun match's, currently I'm still using a 5.56, but since I can still use cheap brass, and (within 1 penny) shoot cheap 30 cal bullets, it loads almost as cheap as 55fmj 223 ammo. I have haven't prepped, and shot enough to see if shooting major will benefit me over shooting the 5.56 with a comp(my rifle has no muzzle climb), I've made major with a 175gr bullet, but for me I think I'd need a 147 min, then more gas for a comp. I loose most of the Brass, loosing 200 cases of SSA brass isn't very fun either. You don't see many AK's at our match's, it's all AR15's. Currently I'm holding my own with the 5.56 at matches, it's hard to give up whats working.

The Blackout is not a 6.8, but it's no slouch either, I've made a place for it, and it's probably here for the long haul like the 6.8. I have a G barrel coming from H, if I can ring steel 300M past the 6.8, maybe it will be a keeper, time will tell, keep the good stuff, sell off the posers. Guys with AK's, they have it going on too. Nothing wrong with that system, I would feel well armed with one, but I'm pretty smooth with the AR family(I'd be rough on an AK for a few minutes).

What is 7.62x39 selling in your neck of the woods, it's over $200/1200 rounds here, but I don't check prices often, but I cry when I see the 5.45x45(I think I got that right)ammo, $130 for 1200 cases, yes, that is cheap, and I've thought about an upper, but I'm good with 5.56 and 6.8 mags, and not cleaning up after corrosive ammo is fine in my book.

Blackout or 7.62x39, pick you passion, I went AR15(5.56, 6x45, 6.5PCC, 6.8II, 300 BLK), I've got the bases covered, and home plate too.

BradL45
03-23-2012, 12:07 AM
Buzz through a phone pole? Ya'll have some skinny ass phone poles.

Big poles, little poles, FMJs eat them up, AK's shoot through them too!!!!!! If the 5.56 did a better job of shooting through blocks, cars, and other cover, we wouldn't need many of the other variants. I shoot super sonic, many think the Blackout is about subs, for me it's about SUPER SoNIC!

The 300 BLK isn't the end all of rounds, the best match for me is a 6.5 Creedmore(we have very wide open spaces here), I used to hunt with an AR-10 in 308, now I'd rather pack a 6.8 when deer hunting, and a bolt gun for ELK, a 338 LM makes a lot of sense here as well, phone poles beware!!!!!!!!

BradL45
03-23-2012, 12:27 AM
When it comes to different calibers, as shooters we are never happy, and every caliber is really a compromise between other calibers. I just have to look at my pistol collection, I've got holes there too!

Started with a 9mm, moved to a 38 super, then 45 for Bowling pins and USPSA, then I had my power Glock 10mm phase(I wished I keep at least one of my Glock 20s). Now I just keep 9mm Glocks, and 1911 45's, I should have a 40 in there, but I feel good with the 9mm's and 45's, a 40 guy might think I'm crazy(war there to, 9mm vs 40 vs 357sig vs 45 gap vs 45acp,lol), but I'll challenge any 40 guy to a bowling pin match, the bet: looser buys the super Big gulp, diet Coke with lime please. :a19:

Severson
03-23-2012, 09:43 AM
I can plink steel all day long subsonic from the deck without pissing off anyone.
What an excellent platform to introduce to new shooters...quiet with very little recoil.
Good short to medium range deer caliber...most deer are shot at 150 yds or less anyway.
Short overall length will come in handy on my annual trip to TX hog hunting...sometimes we have to get in the thick stuff after em.
Still have 3 months to wait for my stamps but what fun its going to be when they arrive!

Jamesb74
03-23-2012, 10:05 AM
I can plink steel all day long subsonic from the deck without pissing off anyone.
What an excellent platform to introduce to new shooters...quiet with very little recoil.
Good short to medium range deer caliber...most deer are shot at 150 yds or less anyway.
Short overall length will come in handy on my annual trip to TX hog hunting...sometimes we have to get in the thick stuff after em.
Still have 3 months to wait for my stamps but what fun its going to be when they arrive!

Are you even reading the threads here or just coming on to stir the pot?
Read the thread you started with the exact same post. I am dropping yours here because I don't want Bradl's info lost.

WASSMAN
03-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Sickem james. Your on the ball. Nice.

RUTGERS95
03-23-2012, 02:04 PM
I shoot lots of Wolf WPA 5.56 ammo, for training, it's good stuff in my book. ~$220 delivered/1k

5.56 vs the BLK in the SD role, I don't have the factory 110 TTSX LV in factory ammo yet, the Blackout is NOT in the SD or PDW role yet.
The 110 TTSX Blackout round should be a great SD round, Barrier blind, expansion, and penetration. I havn't shopped for SD ammo in the x39 round, but I'd guess a Barnes TSX or TTSX would rock too.

The Blackout, it's a different weapon system than the 5.56, training will show sub-standard performance, from reliability(of many componets), to sub-par ammo. With the cheap pulls, it is cheaper to reload and shoot than the 6.8. Recoil impluse is different, site recovery is different. I also have lots of 5.56 brass, and I've converted many to 300 BLK cases for my use. I bet I am really close in cost reloading for the 300 BLK vs buying x39 ammo, I do loose some time, but 1050's are pretty quick.

I use 6.8's in the home defense role now, and 5.56 as backup/bug out systems, 85TSX is stuffed in lots of mags.

Shooting indoors, big difference in blast with the 6.8 vs the 300 BLK, and the BLK offers a nice compromise between the 5.56 and 6.8, and my 8 inch Blackouts fit perfect in my X3 Lo-drag and GunslingerII Back packs.

We are an AR15 home(and we have an extended AR15 family too), lots of 5.56s and no AK's, the Blackout makes more sense here due to Magazines, and lots of AR parts, and Brass. With 125 Ballistic tips, it's sub MOA, and the Blackout is reliable in my systems. More AR's(in any caliber), is always better in my book!!! Commonality is a huge plus for us. My daughters are not really the type that buy guns and ammo, but they know AR's, and knowing one rifle platform Well has it's pluses.

I still shoot at 3gun match's, currently I'm still using a 5.56, but since I can still use cheap brass, and (within 1 penny) shoot cheap 30 cal bullets, it loads almost as cheap as 55fmj 223 ammo. I have haven't prepped, and shot enough to see if shooting major will benefit me over shooting the 5.56 with a comp(my rifle has no muzzle climb), I've made major with a 175gr bullet, but for me I think I'd need a 147 min, then more gas for a comp. I loose most of the Brass, loosing 200 cases of SSA brass isn't very fun either. You don't see many AK's at our match's, it's all AR15's. Currently I'm holding my own with the 5.56 at matches, it's hard to give up whats working.

The Blackout is not a 6.8, but it's no slouch either, I've made a place for it, and it's probably here for the long haul like the 6.8. I have a G barrel coming from H, if I can ring steel 300M past the 6.8, maybe it will be a keeper, time will tell, keep the good stuff, sell off the posers. Guys with AK's, they have it going on too. Nothing wrong with that system, I would feel well armed with one, but I'm pretty smooth with the AR family(I'd be rough on an AK for a few minutes).

What is 7.62x39 selling in your neck of the woods, it's over $200/1200 rounds here, but I don't check prices often, but I cry when I see the 5.45x45(I think I got that right)ammo, $130 for 1200 cases, yes, that is cheap, and I've thought about an upper, but I'm good with 5.56 and 6.8 mags, and not cleaning up after corrosive ammo is fine in my book.

Blackout or 7.62x39, pick you passion, I went AR15(5.56, 6x45, 6.5PCC, 6.8II, 300 BLK), I've got the bases covered, and home plate too.

gotcha, thanks for the analysis!

rsilvers
03-29-2012, 01:07 AM
SSA seems to have brass and ammo coming out:

http://www.ssarmory.com/300_BLK_Brass_Cases.aspx

68WJ
03-29-2012, 08:21 AM
From what I understand they do good 5.56 work, so this will probably be good brass as well (case head commonality). New brass is probably the way to go (or other new manufactured brass) rather than the oversimplified hack and form DIY jobs where most of the annealed portion is lost.

DWSX
04-01-2012, 07:12 PM
SSA seems to have brass and ammo coming out:

http://www.ssarmory.com/300_BLK_Brass_Cases.aspx

........they sure do....Projected dates>>>August 2012 for brass and October 2012 for ammo...Now tell me,, are the projected dates ever met??

BradL45
04-02-2012, 01:19 AM
I won't buy any SSA 300 Blackout Brass, but I'll buy ammo from SSA, I like their 6.8 ammo and Brass.

I cut and anneal my 300 BLK brass from Good LC 5.56, once fired costs 5 cents each, or New LC 11 runs 13 cents each.

I'd guess that a good Barnes bullet in SSA ammo will cost the same as a good Barnes bullet in SSA 6.8 ammo, we have to pay for the good stuff.

SSA, will they hit projected dates? IDK, they seem pretty nimble.

BFL
04-02-2012, 02:00 AM
SSA, will they hit projected dates? IDK, they seem pretty nimble.

How long has the .243 link been there as coming soon? Where did the 260 Rem link go?

nyc71
04-05-2012, 01:17 PM
I paid $151 for 1,080 rds of 5.45x39 shipped or $284 for 2,160 rds shipped.


"Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy"- Alexander Hamilton

346CI
04-05-2012, 08:18 PM
I paid $151 for 1,080 rds of 5.45x39 shipped or $284 for 2,160 rds shipped.


"Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy"- Alexander Hamilton

You won't get any cheaper than that for a blaster, doesn't drop like a brick either. AK74s and others such as the Tantal are getting hard to find though. The cheap AK days are over...