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View Full Version : Barrel recommendations for a DPMS LR-308



LocoGringo
10-29-2011, 05:45 PM
I have a DPMS LR-308 that I am disappointed with the accuracy. I had the factory 24", 1:10 twist stainless steel barrel contoured down to an H-bar rather than the original bull barrel to get rid of weight and make it a lot more practical rifle rather than a specialized benchrest or prone rifle. The accuracy hasn't really changed from the contour and recrowning. I've been shooting match 168 and 175 grain ammo (Lake City M118 sniper ammo, Federal OTM, Black Hills Match), but my results are still erratic. I'll get some FANTASTICLY accurate shots, but the consistency isn't there that I want. I know it's not the scope...everything is tight and HIGH quality (Leupold Mark 4, Badger Ordnance rings) and I don't handload yet, but I'm not even getting 1 MOA accuracy out of it. I get 1 MOA out of my 6.8 with factory ammo easily.

So, I'm looking for a new barrel that won't break the bank. I have a local custom gunsmith that does fantastic work and is DEEP into long range accuracy with both AR type weapons and bolt actions. He's recommending a Rock Creek barrel and I have no objection to it, I'm just looking for anyone with experience with this type of rifle and rebarreling projects. Wide open to input...

Jamesb74
10-29-2011, 05:53 PM
Paging Angsniper.....paging Angsniper!!!!!!


He basically did then same thing as you. Now has a LR-308 with a Kreiger 18" that he uses to smooth plum wear out the 1k steel every time we are at the Badlands. My vote would be Kreiger. IN longrange shooting you get what you pay for. I bet they are on par price wise with the RC 5R as well.

You could order directly form Kreiger and send them your bolt and they will headspace the chamber to it as well. Then just attach and go shoot.

lwrkeysfisher
10-29-2011, 06:08 PM
I have a DPMS LR-308 that I am disappointed with the accuracy. I had the factory 24", 1:10 twist stainless steel barrel contoured down to an H-bar rather than the original bull barrel to get rid of weight and make it a lot more practical rifle rather than a specialized benchrest or prone rifle. The accuracy hasn't really changed from the contour and recrowning. I've been shooting match 168 and 175 grain ammo (Lake City M118 sniper ammo, Federal OTM, Black Hills Match), but my results are still erratic. I'll get some FANTASTICLY accurate shots, but the consistency isn't there that I want. I know it's not the scope...everything is tight and HIGH quality (Leupold Mark 4, Badger Ordnance rings) and I don't handload yet, but I'm not even getting 1 MOA accuracy out of it. I get 1 MOA out of my 6.8 with factory ammo easily.

So, I'm looking for a new barrel that won't break the bank. I have a local custom gunsmith that does fantastic work and is DEEP into long range accuracy with both AR type weapons and bolt actions. He's recommending a Rock Creek barrel and I have no objection to it, I'm just looking for anyone with experience with this type of rifle and rebarreling projects. Wide open to input...

I would call GA Precision and see if they could fix you up. Might be pricey, but you would pay once and be done. They use Bartlein 5R 1-11.25 twist barrels, that are probably the best around.

LocoGringo
10-29-2011, 06:51 PM
I would call GA Precision and see if they could fix you up. Might be pricey, but you would pay once and be done. They use Bartlein 5R 1-11.25 twist barrels, that are probably the best around.
Appreciate the input, but I'm trying to support my local gunsmith (who is REALLY good) while not going bankrupt. I've probably got around $500-$600 (gunsmith and barrel) to put into this. I'm not going to win any long range competitions, but I'm thinking I'd like an accurate AR-10 (I know it's not an Armalite) that I could take to the woods and shoot a deer offhand at 100-150 yards with a head shot if I do my part and then take it to the 1,000 yard range and shoot 9's or better on an NRA "F" class target (also if I do my part). Am I dreaming...or just ambitious?

Jamesb74
10-29-2011, 07:36 PM
Appreciate the input, but I'm trying to support my local gunsmith (who is REALLY good) while not going bankrupt. I've probably got around $500-$600 (gunsmith and barrel) to put into this. I'm not going to win any long range competitions, but I'm thinking I'd like an accurate AR-10 (I know it's not an Armalite) that I could take to the woods and shoot a deer offhand at 100-150 yards with a head shot if I do my part and then take it to the 1,000 yard range and shoot 9's or better on an NRA "F" class target (also if I do my part). Am I dreaming...or just ambitious?

You could still get a Kreiger for that or a Bartlien. Kreigers are about $425 ish. How much is your smith going to charge you? If he already quoted you $500 with a 5R just stick with that.

LocoGringo
10-29-2011, 08:09 PM
I am a big fan of Krieger. I've already gotten a 7mm Krieger blank for a project rifle for my son that will be a 7mm-08 and my brother is building a high end .308 tactical/"F" class bolt action that looks like the Les Baer in their ads with a Krieger barrel. The gunsmith will charge $45/hour for their work. 5-R rifling is standard with the Rock Creek barrels, but they don't contour them. They just provide a blank that is .30 cal with your twist rate and the gunsmith has to chamber/thread/contour/whatever else you want. The RC blank will cost about $335 and then there is all of the gunsmith work and then the gunsmith sends it back to RC to flute the barrel. Kind of a crazy system, but I think it can be done for less than $600...and as I said, it is automatically with the 5-R rifling. The 5-R rifling is an option with Krieger (gotta pay extra). Do you get a finished product with the Krieger? By finished product I mean chambered with your bolt, threaded with the barrel extension and gas hole drilled, etc.? Thanks for the info up to now. A lot to consider...

L51S
10-29-2011, 08:54 PM
Kreiger. There may be some as good out there, but there is none better. I have had several "match" barrels over the years, but none that were as consistant as my Kreigers. They shoot just about any decent bullet well and do it for a long time. I sent them my M14 and what I received back was a tack driver. I have also had no less than 5 Krieger AR barrels over the years and all were outstanding. Buy once, cry once.

Team Helotes
10-29-2011, 09:15 PM
I have been looking at these. I called and they quoted me right at $450 with a bolt included. http://www.lothar-walther.com/473.php

Drifter
10-29-2011, 09:22 PM
Based on how well their Shilen 6.8 barrels shoot, I would think that Rainier's same offering in 308 would be quite accurate. They have a few different lengths, and some other potential options as well.

Doubt that they would beat a Kreiger, but if you need something quickly, Rainier has different flavors in stock.

Here's a link to their AR Variant barrels:

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/browse&category=arvariants_barrels&keyword=&pagenumber=1

LocoGringo
10-29-2011, 10:02 PM
I've been looking at Lothar-Walther as well. I've got a buddy who has an actual AR-10 with that barrel and it shoots darn well. I haven't been able to get a quote from them though. Thanks for the ideas guys.

Team Helotes
10-29-2011, 10:04 PM
I've been looking at Lothar-Walther as well. I've got a buddy who has an actual AR-10 with that barrel and it shoots darn well. I haven't been able to get a quote from them though. Thanks for the ideas guys.I called them on the phone.

angsniper
10-29-2011, 11:38 PM
I hear ya! I have a LR308 that started as the 24" bull barrel. Did I say barrel? I meant tent stake. It shot 2-3" groups at 100yds no matter what ammo I fed it. I swapped the barrel out with a 18" Kreiger SS match 10:1 barrel and now it shoots great. I run it out to 1k all the time with M118LR. I think I paid just over $300 for that barrel and it was well worth it.

LocoGringo
10-29-2011, 11:49 PM
I hear ya! I have a LR308 that started as the 24" bull barrel. Did I say barrel? I meant tent stake. It shot 2-3" groups at 100yds no matter what ammo I fed it. I swapped the barrel out with a 18" Kreiger SS match 10:1 barrel and now it shoots great. I run it out to 1k all the time with M118LR. I think I paid just over $300 for that barrel and it was well worth it.I've been waiting on your reply (per James). If you don't mind, tell me ALL of the specs on your barrel. If you know the weight, muzzle diameter, etc. Why did you go with the 1:10 twist? I thought the "in" rate of twist was 1:11.25". When did you buy yours? Krieger's website says their "gas gun" barrels are $400 now. Do you handload? What kind of muzzle velocities are you getting with an 18" barrel? What kind of scope are you running that gives you enough "oomph" to get out to 1000 yards with said 18" barrel? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I'm REAL curious about your setup. I'm no sniper...just beginning the long range game. I've shot a 600 yard match with both my Savage 10 FP and the DPMS (same match...2 strings DPMS and 1 string Savage) and the Savage WORE OUT the Panther. It was a no-brainer and a big disappointment in the DPMS. Thanks for any info you can give...

angsniper
10-30-2011, 12:51 PM
I think you'll find that most gas gun barrels are 10 twist. Why? I don't know. Barrel is a Kreiger Criterion, 18.5" SS Match 10:1 twist. Medium contour and .936 under the gas block, I'm not sure how much it weighs. I bought the barrel 3yrs ago from Fulton Armory. I get 2572 fps with issued M118LR and I've been running a super sniper 10x scope on it. The weapon is pretty heavy at about 13 lbs I think.

LocoGringo
10-30-2011, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the info angsniper. That helps a lot. If you could order your barrel to your specs, what twist would you want and what type of rifling (ex. 4 groove, polygonal, 5-R)? I always enjoy picking more experienced brains.

Team Helotes
10-30-2011, 07:57 PM
Angsniper why did you go with 18". I have been thinking 20" or 24" for mine. I am not too worried about weight since I do not plan on having to hump it anywhere.

Big Bore
10-30-2011, 08:20 PM
You can get a Pac-Nor Super Match air gauged stainless 28 inch x 1.250 center turned barrel blank, contouring and LR-308 barrel extension (or use the old one off your .308 barrel) and you will not be over your limit. All of my custom barrels are Pac-Nor and they all go MOA or better on my LRs, and that includes the .470 Rhino, .500 Phantom, .358 HDH, and .338 Federal. All my AR Pac-Nors are also capable of MOA and that includes 4 .458 SOCOMs.
Figure about $250 for the blank and another $250 for contouring and you are well within your limit.

angsniper
10-30-2011, 09:04 PM
The barrel I got from Fulton armory is running $279 right now and it's ready to bolt on. The 24" barrel is too long for what I want. They are heavy enough without adding more unnecessary weight. I'd go with a 16" if I wasn't taking it out to 1k regularly. You can get there with 16" but it's alot more work. They have the same barrel in 20" if you want something longer. It's just personal preference.

Team Helotes
10-30-2011, 09:42 PM
Angsniper do you have link?

angsniper
10-30-2011, 10:10 PM
http://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelfatitan185nmmedss1x10936gasblock.aspx

L51S
10-30-2011, 10:24 PM
Be advised that a Criterion/Krieger and a Kreiger are not the same thing. Criterion is a division of Kreiger and while they make very good barrels, they are not the same specs as a true Kreiger match barrel. I own a Criterion I put on a Garand for my wife. It will shoot with any Garand I have ever seen, but it is not a true Kreiger "match" barrel. True Kreiger barrels are single point cut rifled and are air gauged to. 0001. I believe Criterions are button rifled and I am unsure if they are air gauged. As stated, Criterions are very good barrels and out to 300 yds, you probably won't see a difference. There is a reason Criterion barrels cost less than true Kreigers. The specs are not the same.

angsniper
10-30-2011, 10:37 PM
That is correct however, True kreiger or subsidiary of kreiger is irrelevant. Shoots sub MOA and will consistently ring steel at 1k while not breaking the bank. You guys can spend more if you want, that's your choice.

L51S
10-30-2011, 10:53 PM
True kreiger or subsidiary or kreiger is irrelevant. Shoots sub MOA and will consistently ring steel at 1k while not breaking the bank. You guys can spend more if you want, that's your choice.

No attempt made to disparage what you have, only to clarify that there are differences in the specs. As I stated, I have a Criterion and I am very pleased with it. You also have one and you are obviously as pleased as I am. I only posted what I did to attempt to explain the differences in the prices that have been posted in the thread. The prices quoted were obviously comparing a Criterion to a Kreiger which is not the same barrel. The OP will ultimately have to decide which is the proper choice for him, but can now do so with the knowledge of the differences between the two.

LocoGringo
10-30-2011, 11:09 PM
ANGSNIPER and L51S...Thank you both for the clarification. I noticed the barrel listed on Fulton Armory and the Krieger listed also and was confused. The Krieger actually said "Krieger" and the one ANG is mentioning said FA (which I assume means Fulton Armory and is proprietary). I never saw any mention of Criterion, so I wasn't sure who actually made the barrel ANG was talking about. I'm sure I'm not even good enough to be able to tell the difference if I shot them, I just want to be sure of what I am buying and know why I am buying it. What I want to do is build the best rifle I can afford and practice and develop my skills enough to become worthy of it. Thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions.

What twist rate and type of rifling would you prefer if you could select your specs? I plan on shooting 168 or 175 grain bullets.

L51S
10-30-2011, 11:28 PM
ANGSNIPER and L51S...Thank you both for the clarification. I noticed the barrel listed on Fulton Armory and the Krieger listed also and was confused. The Krieger actually said "Krieger" and the one ANG is mentioning said FA (which I assume means Fulton Armory and is proprietary). I never saw any mention of Criterion, so I wasn't sure who actually made the barrel ANG was talking about. I'm sure I'm not even good enough to be able to tell the difference if I shot them, I just want to be sure of what I am buying and know why I am buying it. What I want to do is build the best rifle I can afford and practice and develop my skills enough to become worthy of it. Thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions.

What twist rate and type of rifling would you prefer if you could select your specs? I plan on shooting 168 or 175 grain bullets.

I would recommend a 1-10 twist for the heavier bullets. I don't have any personal experience with 5R rifling, but everything I hear about it is good. I don't think Kreiger would offer it as an option if they didn't think it was a viable alternative to their standard rifling.

LocoGringo
10-31-2011, 12:13 AM
You can tell that I'm leaning towards the 5R, but Krieger says on their own webpage that "improvement" results are inconclusive and to wait for a shooting season for more information. I asked them directly when I ordered the barrel for my son's build if they had received any good/bad input from competitive shooters and they responded that they hadn't received any reviews either way. I'm just wondering if the 5R is a fad or if it actually is "better". I've heard some guys swear by it and I've heard inconclusive results. If you average the two together, I guess you get "a little better". I haven't heard anything bad about it.

angsniper
10-31-2011, 09:16 AM
ANGSNIPER and L51S...Thank you both for the clarification. I noticed the barrel listed on Fulton Armory and the Krieger listed also and was confused. The Krieger actually said "Krieger" and the one ANG is mentioning said FA (which I assume means Fulton Armory and is proprietary). I never saw any mention of Criterion, so I wasn't sure who actually made the barrel ANG was talking about. I'm sure I'm not even good enough to be able to tell the difference if I shot them, I just want to be sure of what I am buying and know why I am buying it. What I want to do is build the best rifle I can afford and practice and develop my skills enough to become worthy of it. Thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions.

What twist rate and type of rifling would you prefer if you could select your specs? I plan on shooting 168 or 175 grain bullets.

If you call them you can find out who makes the barrels. They told me it was the Kreiger/criterion.
In theory the faster twist rates are better for heavier bullets. Not always the case as I have fast twists that like lighter bullets and a slow twist that likes heavier bullets. Most of the gas gun barrels are 10 twist and I really couldn't tell you why. I have no experience with 5R so I can't help there. My 700 has a stock barrel on it.

L51S
10-31-2011, 01:06 PM
You can tell that I'm leaning towards the 5R, but Krieger says on their own webpage that "improvement" results are inconclusive and to wait for a shooting season for more information. I asked them directly when I ordered the barrel for my son's build if they had received any good/bad input from competitive shooters and they responded that they hadn't received any reviews either way. I'm just wondering if the 5R is a fad or if it actually is "better". I've heard some guys swear by it and I've heard inconclusive results. If you average the two together, I guess you get "a little better". I haven't heard anything bad about it.

See linked page below, according to their website, Krieger does not offer and does not plan to offer 5R rifling on their pre finished gas gun barrel line up. Apparently, they only do this on their blanks. You should still be able to get a good smith to contour and setup a 5R blank to fit your rifle though.

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/5_R_Rifling-c1246-wp6676.htm

LocoGringo
10-31-2011, 02:49 PM
Well, I think that seals it. I would have to do the same thing with the Krieger as I do with the Rock Creek but the blank will cost about $100 more. I think I'm gonna follow my gunsmith's recommendation and go with the Rock Creek barrel blank that comes standard with the 5R rifling and have the gunsmith contour, drill the gas hole (nomenclature?), and do whatever else needs to be done. As I said in my OP, he's a great gunsmith who knows a lot about the long range game. I'll probably go with the 1:11.25 twist, but I can't decide on the barrel length. ANG is ringing steel at 1k with an 18" barrel and "commercial" military sniper ammo (not handloaded) which is amazing to me. I was originally thinking a 22" but if I keep a relatively heavy contour, the rifle is going to be too specialized and geared toward prone/benchrest shooting...again. I'm thinking I'll go with a 20" and have it fluted. I don't want to have to be the Hulk to shoot this rifle offhand.

I think what I will do is save the Krieger for my Savage when it will need to get rebarreled. As I said, I'm a big fan of Krieger, but I can't justify the funds for this particular project. Thanks for all of the input and ideas.

angsniper
10-31-2011, 03:17 PM
Not that important but just to clarify. The M118LR I shoot is NOT commercial. It's Gov't issue and not the stuff you see for sale by lake city. Whether or not the projo, powder and primers are the same I don't know. All I know is it comes in plain brown boxes marked with the lot number.

LocoGringo
10-31-2011, 03:24 PM
OK, the stuff I was shooting was the exact same stuff you are shooting (with the exception of lot number) because it was given to me by an Air Force sniper/trainer. Didn't know that there may be a difference between military issued and the commercially produced ammo by Lake City, but my point was that the ammo you use is not handloaded which tends to be more accurate and specifically tailored to a particular weapon rather than mass produced for many weapons.

angsniper
10-31-2011, 03:37 PM
Correct. I do know that they changed powder somewhere along the way. It would have been shortly after Desrt Storm IIRC. All the stuff they gave us for practice was dated 1987 to 1995 so I think I have some of both loads. I can't remember what they use to load now days. I do see LC M118LR for sale and it's in white boxes.
Looks like this but says M118LR. I have some of this stuff too but I ration it more than the LR:a01:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb27/angsniper/M118LRProto1.jpg

Jamesb74
10-31-2011, 11:07 PM
Correct. I do know that they changed powder somewhere along the way. It would have been shortly after Desrt Storm IIRC. All the stuff they gave us for practice was dated 1987 to 1995 so I think I have some of both loads. I can't remember what they use to load now days. I do see LC M118LR for sale and it's in white boxes.
Looks like this but says M118LR. I have some of this stuff too but I ration it more than the LR:a01:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb27/angsniper/M118LRProto1.jpg


You need to sell me some. Stingy!!!!!!LOL!!

LocoGringo
11-01-2011, 12:06 PM
Well ANG...it seems you're the man. Talked with my gunsmith today, showed him my target from this weekend to emphasize the need to change the barrel, mentioned this thread and your Fulton Armory suggestion, so he was curious. We went to the webpage to take a look and he said, "shoot, you can get a completed barrel for the price of a blank from me, that's what I'd go with". He also said the sweet spot between rigidity and muzzle velocity for a .308 is between an 18" and a 20" in the AR, so it looks like you're right on the money. Thanks a BUNCH for the info and suggestion. That's what I'm going with.

You should ask Fulton Armory for a "customer recommendation fee".