6.8 Bushmaster ACR

[Glock20man]

Any word on when these will be hitting store shelves? Manufacture's website references Q1 of 2009 (Oct 08 or Jan 09?). I presume that this release date will be for 5.56. Anyone have any ideas on the 6.8 version? Thanks.

[marinesg1012]

I am not planning on holding my breath.....

[M4Super90]

Any word on when these will be hitting store shelves? Manufacturer's website references Q1 of 2009 (Oct 08 or Jan 09?). I presume that this release date will be for 5.56. Anyone have any ideas on the 6.8 version? Thanks.

I've heard that the focus will be to get the initial release in the various 5.56 versions out ASAP. The barrel is a modified AR barrel with QD capability, and "they" say at a later unspecified date, ACR conversion kits for 7.62 X 39 and 6.8 will be released.

I wonder what they will use for mags since the PMags won't work?

[Tim_W]

Well that may not be true as they are not ARs any more these are completely new guns that accept AR mags. The mag well could be larger which would mean enough room for a Pmag to be created but I really doubt that is the case. More wanted to point out these are no longer ARs.

[caporider]

Magpul has actually been using one of CA's SPCII 1:11 barrels for 6.8 testing for some time now. So you know the 6.8 version will at the very least be able to handle SSA's combat loads.

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

When I talked to them at Shot Show, they assured me it would be First Quarter 08. Whatever.

ACR-U, that is ACR Unicorn is what it is. Heard about, but never seen.

I hope the SCAR beats them to market. I predict that Magpull will regret teaming with Bushmaster. Or at least get the crap end of the stick in the deal. They should have never have given up any control of their design to another company. Don't think that Bushy isn't gonna get their pound of flesh out of this deal.

Who wants a Bushmaster anyway- my friend got shot five times while using his Bushy as a single shot repeater due to an improperly staked gas key-during an ambush.

On a positive note, the AKs/PKMs being shot at him ran just fine.

Forgive my rant, I really would like Magpull to prosper on this, but I wish they had teamed up with a better source of venture capital/manufacturing assistance.

Good luck Magpull, love your mags.

[Glock20man]

When the prototype/shot show video hit the internet, I must say that I was very interested and excited. Since then, with the long wait and no updates, I have been steering more toward a LMT MRP piston or a LWRC. In either case, I will continue to save my pennies.

[Tim_W]

As I understood it MagPul sold the rights to Bushmaster now there maybe a pr unit royalty in which case it would matter to MAGPUL but th act is MP is a small shop and there is no why without a huge cash injection and expansion in facilities.

[mdlestat]

One man's perspective:

Funny it's been so long since this was posted, and the ACR is still vaporware--with no end in sight.

Sorry to resurrect the thread, but I was a huge fan of this thing... and have to admit that I've long since given up on it.

I can only afford one rifle for the long-foreseeable future (I'm one of those poor saps that has very little money left after the end of any given month), and I'm happy to have decided on a MK68-centered build from ARP-- I'll be using the well-proven AR format that has the added benefit of...well...actually existing in the real world.

I am thrilled and excited about it, and know I will not regret the choice.

But if I could have bought an ACR, I would have in an instant. I never even would have found ARP.

Did Magpul screw themselves out of untold thousands of sales to other people like me (us lightweights that will probably be satisfied or financially restrained to a one-rifle buy) that are/have been buying in reaction/anticipation to the current global govt/economic situation over the last year?

Absolutely. I wager they're not going to get another chance with most casual buyers, because we'll have bought whatever we could get when we needed it.

While I can't "technically" blame Magpul for the years-long "delays" of release, it seems to me that they appear to have ignored the civilian market entirely to focus on mil/gov. Sucks, because they touted the ever-living hell out of it for so long, to just yank out the rug and go silent for almost 2 years.

They have had an essentially finished product for at least a year and a half, right? Little tweaks here and there do NOT hang up production for that long--especially when you have the engineering skill and resources of two solid companies like Magpul and BM (haters acknowledged--but c'mon--really: BM is a mostly strong company)

So can we blame them for going for the hundred-thousand-rifle gov contracts(or whatever), knowing that there's a chance that our guys in uniform could end up toting these (superior) rifles into battle before us?
No, not in that sense--

But when, as a civvie, I can and do see that Magpul seems to have the same inability to bring other products to market (Why can't I buy a UBR right now, Magpul? What's your problem there?) it changes the situation-- now it's multiple popular products that the company can't seem to get into the hands of willing customers.

Ugh. It's frustrating.
Perhaps they might should have stuck to what they're good at-- magazines-- they are A-1 with those-- and license other big-dog manufacturers to build the product lines they can't get done in-house, like the UBR.
This is done every single day in countless industries.

Whatever avenue they choose, it would keep Magpul from getting further infected with the vaporware reputation it is getting in some quarters. I know they have some good reasons--and I know many people could care less about the setbacks and scarcity of their stuff-- but really, we're asking no more than to hold them to their own word about their product availability.

[fireguy]

One man's perspective:

Funny it's been so long since this was posted, and the ACR is still vaporware--with no end in sight.

Sorry to resurrect the thread, but I was a huge fan of this thing... and have to admit that I've long since given up on it.

I can only afford one rifle for the long-foreseeable future (I'm one of those poor saps that has very little money left after the end of any given month), and I'm happy to have decided on a MK68-centered build from ARP-- I'll be using the well-proven AR format that has the added benefit of...well...actually existing in the real world.

I am thrilled and excited about it, and know I will not regret the choice.

But if I could have bought an ACR, I would have in an instant. I never even would have found ARP.

Did Magpul screw themselves out of untold thousands of sales to other people like me (us lightweights that will probably be satisfied or financially restrained to a one-rifle buy) that are/have been buying in reaction/anticipation to the current global govt/economic situation over the last year?

Absolutely. I wager they're not going to get another chance with most casual buyers, because we'll have bought whatever we could get when we needed it.

While I can't "technically" blame Magpul for the years-long "delays" of release, it seems to me that they appear to have ignored the civilian market entirely to focus on mil/gov. Sucks, because they touted the ever-living hell out of it for so long, to just yank out the rug and go silent for almost 2 years.

They have had an essentially finished product for at least a year and a half, right? Little tweaks here and there do NOT hang up production for that long--especially when you have the engineering skill and resources of two solid companies like Magpul and BM (haters acknowledged--but c'mon--really: BM is a mostly strong company)

So can we blame them for going for the hundred-thousand-rifle gov contracts(or whatever), knowing that there's a chance that our guys in uniform could end up toting these (superior) rifles into battle before us?
No, not in that sense--

But when, as a civvie, I can and do see that Magpul seems to have the same inability to bring other products to market (Why can't I buy a UBR right now, Magpul? What's your problem there?) it changes the situation-- now it's multiple popular products that the company can't seem to get into the hands of willing customers.

Ugh. It's frustrating.
Perhaps they might should have stuck to what they're good at-- magazines-- they are A-1 with those-- and license other big-dog manufacturers to build the product lines they can't get done in-house, like the UBR.
This is done every single day in countless industries.

Whatever avenue they choose, it would keep Magpul from getting further infected with the vaporware reputation it is getting in some quarters. I know they have some good reasons--and I know many people could care less about the setbacks and scarcity of their stuff-- but really, we're asking no more than to hold them to their own word about their product availability.

mdlestat, I know exactly how you feel. I first heard about the Masada/ACR in 2005 or '06, and started saving for one haphazardly in '07 when I heard they were coming out. By late '08 I had had enough (had plenty of $$ and had waited long enough) and discovered this board and ARP. Would still be willing to buy one but I've spent my money on an ARP upper, Spike's lower, and some related goodies. I don't have an uneasy feeling about draining the gun fun fund since I figure that I have plenty of time to build it back up before the ACR sees the light of day, if ever. I followed a couple ACR threads on ARFCOM for a year or so, even check back occasionally for a laugh. Damn what a great concept, but you can't find much worse examples of follow-through or business acumen. (Any mfr could be selling ACRs for ~$2K these days, no doubt!)

If the ACR is ever released I'll follow it closely, but I'm betting I'll be realy happy with the Xtreme. Actually, I'll bet Constructor has a number of happy customers who were once waiting for the ACR and turned his way once they discovered that somebody was already making an ideal assault rifle. (Just trying to redirect a little bit from the ACR-flaming direction I think this thread is about to take...)

[constructor]

This is what I heard at shot. The first 2 Masadas were hand fit parts and run fine because of that according to the 2 guys. When they tried to assemble from a production run things weren't so great so they were having to redesign most of the rifle in order to produce it in mass quanities.

[ArtFWTx]

If it's not production friendly, the price will be stupid high and reliability will be an issue from day one.

SCARs and XCRs are available if that's the kind of rifle you're looking for. Well there should be more SCARs available as their civilian production gets ramped up.

[constructor]

I think Bushmaster will make the changes and get it out, just not sure how long it will take.
The guys at Magpul would not let anyone touch the old Masada hanging on the board.
Tim and I pulled the SCAR down and stripped it in about 30 seconds, I would like to have a SCAR but I don't want to pay the price and I may be able to build the AR1 the way I really want it. After trying to get machine shops to do stuff I know why it takes forever for these guys to release a new rifle.

[ArtFWTx]

I met an FN Rep who said FN still intends to bring the civilian SCARs to market in much greater numbers and the pricing should be in line with retail, not gouged auctions like Gunbroker. He said the limited release of some to dealers was good publicity, but the publicity also caused them headaches with all the customers and dealers who complained about wanting to get more rifles in the market and at reasonable pricing.

It'll be interesting to see if you develop the AR1 further and go into production.

[marinesg1012]

If the SCAR ever come down to a normal price I will buy one and then after shooting it a bit going to see if our mad scientist can convert it over to 6.8.... :D

I have been holding my breath for to long on the Masada, you guys all know I am a bushy and Magpul fan but this has been way to long......

[mdlestat]

I remember reading good things about the SCAR. I guess the key to me for the Masada was the off-the-shelf (read: non-proprietary) AR parts it integrated into a new and exciting platform-- it would lose a lot of charm if they had to customize everything to get it to work (not to mention making it much more difficult for custom houses like yours, constructor, to make drop-in hardware replacements/upgrades available--proprietary parts always = higher prices as well)

Regardless, I wish them both well, and I still want a frikin UBR--- Magpul, get on it!!

[Freedom-Liberty]

I was at the last SHOT show in Orlando... quoted dealer price for a Civilian SCAR is $2,200.

I don't know about everyone else here... but even 1,500 is a MAJOR stretch for me for an entire weapon...
Until the dealer price is more in line with AR prices, no one is going to sell a lot of anything (SCAR, ACR, XCR, MSAR, TPD AXR, etc) in comparison to an AR platform gun.

That being said, I am more than willing to pay good money for something that is better than a standard AR... but it still has to be affordable.

[marinesg1012]

A guy I work with is friends with the magpul dudes, unconfirmed rumor is the Masada will be available this year (sometime soon I guess) but he was kinda surprised when I told him what bushy was saying on thier websiter about thACR being redesigned.....

[ArtFWTx]

I was at the last SHOT show in Orlando... quoted dealer price for a Civilian SCAR is $2,200.

I don't know about everyone else here... but even 1,500 is a MAJOR stretch for me for an entire weapon...
Until the dealer price is more in line with AR prices, no one is going to sell a lot of anything (SCAR, ACR, XCR, MSAR, TPD AXR, etc) in comparison to an AR platform gun.

That being said, I am more than willing to pay good money for something that is better than a standard AR... but it still has to be affordable.

The new July American Rifleman arrived in my mailbox today. The SCAR is on the cover with corresponding articles on the SCAR program, and the civilian SCAR 16s.

Retail price is $2994... which probably coincides with your dealer price of $2200. I read the article and didn't see a large amount of unobtainium used in production so to me the almost $3k price sounds high. I agree with your post. Are we going to see a significantly better product with a $3k SCAR 16s compared to a Colt 6920 or 6940, or an XCR or LWRC ? The cool factor is up there though.

[M4Super90]

I'm wanting the SCAR-H, but if the 16S is $3K I can only imagine what the .308 will be...

I assume you guys know its the Remington ACR now. Same parent company, but no longer in Bushy's hands. I'm guessing it was a waste for Bushmaster to spend so much time on the ACR redesign when they could be cranking out ARs in a sellers market.

[marinesg1012]

I am even more worried about it being in remingtons hands......

[ArtFWTx]

I'm wanting the SCAR-H, but if the 16S is $3K I can only imagine what the .308 will be...

I assume you guys know its the Remington ACR now. Same parent company, but no longer in Bushy's hands. I'm guessing it was a waste for Bushmaster to spend so much time on the ACR redesign when they could be cranking out ARs in a sellers market.


I am even more worried about it being in remingtons hands......

I see nothing good coming out of a Remington ACR. It's been through too many hands now where the original evolutionary concept is diluted. It may end up being a bolt action 22LR by the time we see it again.

[caporider]

Remington will handle military sales of the ACR. All civilian sales will still go through Bushmaster. I have no idea who will build what, other than Magul producing the polymer parts themselves.

[ArtFWTx]

I told you the ACR would end up a Remington Bolt Action. Want proof?

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/msr.htm

:D

[marinesg1012]

I dont understand why rem would run the .mil side and bushy run the civi side since rem has no mil contracts that I know of (except for bolt action recievers) and bushy sells guns to the .mil....

that MSR is just foolish looking....

[ArtFWTx]

I dont understand why rem would run the .mil side and bushy run the civi side since rem has no mil contracts that I know of (except for bolt action recievers) and bushy sells guns to the .mil....

that MSR is just foolish looking....

Remington made Garands back in WWII, and 1911's in WWII also. So they know all about military contracts. ;) Just ignore the recent M4 contracts BM has filled. They don't mean anything.

To me, this sounds like GM where each company wants to sell a version of the same thing. Seems like Remington is raiding DPMS and BM for its new products instead of creating their own. At least Ruger was creative with their AR making it a piston.

The stock on the MSR looks like Remington is buying them from Surgeon Rifles, so they're not creating their own ideas, just buying them from others.

http://www.surgeonrifles.com/products/tacmod-stocks/

[fireguy]

Yeah, that thing looks like some video gamer's wet dream. All I see is places for dust and rocks to collect, and places that will snag clothing, brush, etc. At least one could simulate training with it by crawling through the woods trailing a trot line...you know, until it hits the dealer's shelves.

On that note (and seeing the SCAR on the cover) I'm done with rifles being featured on the cover of magazines with promises that they'll be available soon. I had the G&A issue with the Masada on the cover (was that late '07?) until it spontaneously disintegrated, and that experience has brought me back to the AR platform until I actually see something on a dealer's shelf that competes with it.

Sorry for the rant, I'm still in a bad mood from going to Wal-Mart in an attempt to find anything other than .243 and 20 gauge ammo...

[joshuades]

I wish there were more three lug precision bolt actions. I never liked the long throw on the 700s as I prefer as little movement as possible (aside from lever actions which were designed for cavalry). This one looks like a 700 action base with furniture to make it look cool, but it just makes it look like a 700 with no usefullness.

[constructor]

yeah, that thing looks like some video gamer's wet dream. All i see is places for dust and rocks to collect, and places that will snag clothing, brush, etc. At least one could simulate training with it by crawling through the woods trailing a trot line...you know, until it hits the dealer's shelves.

On that note (and seeing the scar on the cover) i'm done with rifles being featured on the cover of magazines with promises that they'll be available soon. I had the g&a issue with the masada on the cover (was that late '07?) until it spontaneously disintegrated, and that experience has brought me back to the ar platform until i actually see something on a dealer's shelf that competes with it.

Sorry for the rant, i'm still in a bad mood from going to wal-mart in an attempt to find anything other than .243 and 20 gauge ammo...

lol.............

[ArtFWTx]

I wish there were more three lug precision bolt actions. I never liked the long throw on the 700s as I prefer as little movement as possible (aside from lever actions which were designed for cavalry). This one looks like a 700 action base with furniture to make it look cool, but it just makes it look like a 700 with no usefullness.

I like the new Sako 85's. It seems like a good action, pretty smooth right off the rack.

I never thought much of a shorter lift bolt until I owned one. I don't have 3-lugs, I have 9, but it's still a short lift and quicker throw.

[joshuades]

I like the new Sako 85's. It seems like a good action, pretty smooth right off the rack.

I never thought much of a shorter lift bolt until I owned one. I don't have 3-lugs, I have 9, but it's still a short lift and quicker throw.
Nine like Weatherby action (or Browning as now I can't remember which) that has three rows of three?

[ArtFWTx]

Nine like Weatherby action (or Browning as now I can't remember which) that has three rows of three?

Weatherby MkV. I do like the short 54 degree bolt lift. I definitely feels quicker, whether it is or not.

I kind of wish one of the other American bolt gun makers would make a new short lift action. Weatherby was ahead of its time. You'd think Remington, Ruger, even Savage would redesign their bolt actions.