"Truck Gun"

[jcast141]

I am considering getting a Marlin 336cs in .30-30 as a truck/whatever gun. Was wondering if any of you had a set-up like this and if so feel free to post pics.

[Tim_W]

Ideal to me would be a Mini 14 in 6.8 / M1 carbine is actually a great beater and HD truck gun. They are cheap you can beat the **** out of them and they will still shoot min of man. I like lever actions but am not big on them as a trunk gun for various reasons.

[ArtFWTx]

The answer really depends on your definition of a "Truck Gun". To many there are different answers and variations on the same answer.

A 30-30 has good power for short to moderate ranges say 150 yards or so depending on sights or optics. The ammo is easy to find and relatively affordable for practice. The carbines are handy and easy to carry if weight is an issue.

The downsides to a 30-30 would be it is much slower to reload compared to an AR if needed. You have limited versatility for accessories compared to what's available for the AR. The lever is slower than a semi-automatic for follow up shots, and some lever actions are not inherently as accurate as an AR.

What are you carrying the truck gun for? Farmers and ranchers may need different truck guns than someone living or working in a high crime area.

When are you exposed in your vehicle? Night or day? Will you need night sights or a weapon mounted light?

Are optics appropriate or will good quality iron sights work?

Are you limited by political/legal requirements?

If the lever 30-30 meets your requirements, I would consider adding a very good set of sights like the XS ghost rings. My brother has a set on his Marlin Guide Gun and they really are an improvement over the factory irons.

http://xssights.com/store/rifle.html

[coldair]

a FN SCAR light in 6.8 would be the ideal truck gun if they make the civillian model with the side folding collapsible stock

[ArtFWTx]

I met a FN rep at a local gun shop. The SCARs are coming but the 6.8 may not appear right away. I hope they spec the barrel right when they release the 6.8 setup. Oh, I got a free FN keychain!!

[RawRadioFL]

One of my favorite hog guns is a Marlin lever. I happen to love the big bore lever actions, so I have a model 1895G 45-70 guide gun. It's damned accurate for a lever. In fact I have had several folks at the range comment when I shoot pretty close to the same size groups they get with their fancy bolt guns :lol: It can shoot a tight clover leaf at 100yrds. I have an XS scout mount on it, and can mount my Aimpoint or I also have a Leupold Scout Scope on QD mounts for optics. In the brush, I just use a set of ghost ring sights. I don't have any pics of it on line at the moment, but if you're interested, I can post one or two.

I'll grant that it's no semi-auto when it comes to follow ups, but with practice and a smooth, well tuned action, you can get her movin pretty quick. I know quite a few people that use 30-30 levers as ranch guns. The Marlins are reasonable in price, well made, and its a stand up company. If a lever is what you're looking for, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Marlin at all.

[gdonley308]

I'll chime in here, for me it has to be weapon that if stolen won't make me want to hang myself from a bed sheet. :lol: My Mossberg 500 cheap pos will get the job done 00 buckshot in the tube and Breneke slugs in the side receiver holder. I bought the thing from service merchandise before they went under $178.00 with a 28" full choke barrel, a 18 1/4" barrel with heat shield (the one it wears ), pistol grip, and full stock (I keep the full stock on it).

[rcrandall]

One of my favorite hog guns is a Marlin lever. I happen to love the big bore lever actions, so I have a model 1895G 45-70 guide gun. It's damned accurate for a lever. In fact I have had several folks at the range comment when I shoot pretty close to the same size groups they get with their fancy bolt guns :lol: It can shoot a tight clover leaf at 100yrds. I have an XS scout mount on it, and can mount my Aimpoint or I also have a Leupold Scout Scope on QD mounts for optics. In the brush, I just use a set of ghost ring sights. I don't have any pics of it on line at the moment, but if you're interested, I can post one or two.

I'll grant that it's no semi-auto when it comes to follow ups, but with practice and a smooth, well tuned action, you can get her movin pretty quick. I know quite a few people that use 30-30 levers as ranch guns. The Marlins are reasonable in price, well made, and its a stand up company. If a lever is what you're looking for, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Marlin at all.

I've got the same Marlin Guide gun in .45-70. My reloads are 300 grain JHP's at 1900 fps. That is a potent combo! I'm with you on the Marlins, they are cheaper than the Winchesters and stronger and simpler. The Marlin also looks like an Old West gun and won't attact the same attention as an AR, if that is a concern.

Now, as to the SCAR.....when are they coming out? I NEED one!! :shock:

[ArtFWTx]

The FN rep we talked to at the gun shop said they wanted to release the SCAR-L (5.56, 6.8, 7.62x39, etc) by now but have put off the civilian intro for a few more months. He expected to see some before the end of the year, late fall sometime. The bigger SCAR-H (7.62x51) will show up sometime in 2009.

It's a shame Winchester levers are out of production, hopefully temporarily. I did visit the Marlin display at the NRA show a year ago and they have some cool lever guns ranging from nostalgic cowboy guns to modern Lever Revolution 308's using the new Hornady ammo. The big bore guide guns are beasts. A Marlin Guide Gun in a hotrod 45/70 or the 450 Marlin could be taken to Africa !!

I wish I could have snagged a Mossberg 500 with two barrels and stocks for $178.00 !! A pump 12 gauge makes a great trunk gun. Look how many ride around in police cars even today.

[Cohibra45]

It's a shame Winchester levers are out of production, hopefully temporarily.

Art,

You'll have to talk with the same rep from FN as they now 'own' Winchester. Your right about the old Winchester lever action. It is a great gun and the only real difference between the big 'W' and the big 'M' (Marlin) is side ejection and the Marlin is not quite as strong an action type as the twin locking lugs of the model '92 for pistol calibers and the '86 for 45/70s and 450s. However, both are strong enough to shoot Garrett, CorBon, Buffalo Bore 'heavy' factory loads.

BTW, I have a Browning version 1886 saddle ring carbine and an older 1895 Marlin (both these without the silly cross bolt 'safety') both in 45/70. I really like this round. I also have an older Rossi Puma stainless 45 Long Colt (again without that silly on top safety) to go along with my few handguns in the 45 LC caliber. Before anyone gets on me about my thinking the 'safeties' of these new rifles, they are made that way due to the companies wanting to head off civil suits by lawyers before they appear. For me, the only 'safety' that really works is the one between my ears. Got to have the mind plugged in before using any weapon!!! :wink:

As far as a 'Truck' gun, I have an older Winchester '94 in 30-30 but it is not a 'Pre-64' so if it did get stolen, it could be replaced for less than $250...

One other thing I have to say about the 30/30 and the other lever calibers...Just remember the 'myths' surrounding the 6.8 SPC dropping to the ground after 300 yds...The lever calibers just have to be held off more and will shoot pretty far and have plenty enough umph. Remember the 'Buffalo' hunters shooting the Sharpes to very long ranges and that 'hard' cast bullet can penetrate extremely well even at distance and is already a very large caliber for making very big holes :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: !!!

Kelly

[jcast141]

While I love my AR's, and the SCAR sounds great, I want one that I wont wanna die over if it gets stolen and that also won't break the bank. Bout $250 is my cap on it. I do like the XS ghost ring sights. I am looking for something light and handy, accurate and capable out to 100-150 yards. Fun and not that expensive to shoot with ammo that I can get just about anywhere. .30-30 fits the bill quite nicely for all of the above in a nice little package.

[axeltow]

jcast,
i know this is a little off caliber but i have a marlin .357 mag lever action. i shot it the other day with harrison. it was a blast. 9 in the tube and 1 in the pipe. 10 rounds of .357 should get just about anything done short of shooting distance. its a fun little gun and i think would make a great truck gun. i need to chrono it one of these days to see the velocities im getting.

[ArtFWTx]

Oh.. I almost forgot. A college buddy had a Winchester 94 Trapper carbine with the John Wayne hoop lever. This carbine was a 44mag. It was a favorite at the range or hunting lease when we'd go shooting back in the college days. Like that 357 mentioned above, this handy carbine would work out nicely as well.

This is a great forum. We're having a good discussion about lever guns on an AR oriented site and not a Troll in sight.

Good job guys.

[Cohibra45]

While I love my AR's, and the SCAR sounds great, I want one that I wont wanna die over if it gets stolen and that also won't break the bank. Bout $250 is my cap on it. I do like the XS ghost ring sights. I am looking for something light and handy, accurate and capable out to 100-150 yards. Fun and not that expensive to shoot with ammo that I can get just about anywhere. .30-30 fits the bill quite nicely for all of the above in a nice little package.

jcast141,

If you might be interested in mine (remember Winchester not Marlin), maybe we could meet over at the fairgrounds in Orlando the next gun show. I think it is around the weekend of Aug. 23-24. I could bring it over for a look see if you like.

Take care,

Kelly

[gdonley308]

I still say a pump 12 gauge. Just so you all know I checked with state and local authorities here in Florida and with or without a CCW no long guns may be carried in the vehicle loaded. :cry: The reason for this law according to my LE buddy unofficially is they don't want to be out gunned during a vehicle stopping. Anyway you may want to check your local and state laws in this matter as well.

[Cohibra45]

I still say a pump 12 gauge. Just so you all know I checked with state and local authorities here in Florida and with or without a CCW no long guns may be carried in the vehicle loaded. :cry: The reason for this law according to my LE buddy unofficially is they don't want to be out gunned during a vehicle stopping. Anyway you may want to check your local and state laws in this matter as well.

Kinda defeats the purpose of carrying a gun in the first place...Just turns it into a metal and wood club :?

Kelly

[ArtFWTx]

So in FL you need a CCW. Yep, good point. Check laws before spending your money.

How about a 6.8 AR Pistol in your vehicle with a CCW?

[gdonley308]

So in FL you need a CCW. Yep, good point. Check laws before spending your money.

How about a 6.8 AR Pistol in your vehicle with a CCW?


Actually no you don't need any kind of permit to carry a pistol in your car as long as;

1. The weapon is not concealed. This is a matter for interpretation by the responding officer.
2. A 3 step operation to get the weapon into action. A closed end snapped holster accomplishes this so long as you can't fire the weapon from the holster. In other words unsnap, draw, fire= legal

I guess an AR pistol is classified as a pistol so you should be good to go with that. :D

The long gun may be carried in the vehicle as long as the ammunition is not in close proximity. This again is a matter of interpretation by the responding officer. Just check your state and local laws before toting that AR around behind the seat with a loaded 25rd mag. Another point of interest is that the "State Division of Licensing", who issues our carry permit here in Florida, deferred me to my local LE agency. Apparently it is up to the local counties and cities as to weather you can carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle, all of the cities around me,(there are 5), and Brevard County Sherrifs Office said no f#*king way. Just thought I'd share, didn't mean to bum anyone out. :(

[coldair]

ask the leo telling you no way what the statue is that does not allow the carrying of loaded long gun inside a vehicle.
here is the florida statue allowing it.
5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

[gdonley308]

ask the leo telling you no way what the statue is that does not allow the carrying of loaded long gun inside a vehicle.
here is the florida statue allowing it.
5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

This is what I'm saying the State deferred me to local law enforcement for clarifacationon of the statue. They did not site any statue and I decide not to challenge them as they know all about me and see me at the range with my differant long guns. they also know I always have a loaded 1911 with me anytime I leave the house along with my CCW because they like to pull me over in my 700hp truck. What the State told me was that they did not think my CCW gave me the right to have a loaded long gun concealed in my vehicle but that it was a matter to take up with my local agency. I see you live in Naples across the State from me, can you ask your local LE about this and see what they say? The way I read that section of the statue above leaves room again for interpretation by the officer. The part " securely encased or is not readily accessible for immediate use."
:? :? :?

[ArtFWTx]

700hp truck? We have to see pics and hear about this ride !! I'm not derailing a good discussion, but we have to see this truck and hear all about it. Nice.

[gdonley308]

Okay my truck is taking this thread off topic but go to autotrader.com do a 25 mile search from zip code 32937 for a 1996 Dodge Ram V10. When I get home I can send you some pics just IM me your email address. 578hp at the crank no nitrous 700+ at the crank with 200hp shot. 424rwhp on motor 538rwhp on spray we calculated a 28% drive train loss during a negative dyno pull.

[RawRadioFL]

So in FL you need a CCW. Yep, good point. Check laws before spending your money.

How about a 6.8 AR Pistol in your vehicle with a CCW?


Actually no you don't need any kind of permit to carry a pistol in your car as long as;

1. The weapon is not concealed. This is a matter for interpretation by the responding officer.
2. A 3 step operation to get the weapon into action. A closed end snapped holster accomplishes this so long as you can't fire the weapon from the holster. In other words unsnap, draw, fire= legal

I guess an AR pistol is classified as a pistol so you should be good to go with that. :D

The long gun may be carried in the vehicle as long as the ammunition is not in close proximity. This again is a matter of interpretation by the responding officer. Just check your state and local laws before toting that AR around behind the seat with a loaded 25rd mag. Another point of interest is that the "State Division of Licensing", who issues our carry permit here in Florida, deferred me to my local LE agency. Apparently it is up to the local counties and cities as to weather you can carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle, all of the cities around me,(there are 5), and Brevard County Sherrifs Office said no f#*king way. Just thought I'd share, didn't mean to bum anyone out. :(

Uhm... It's odd that the state would refer you to local law enforcement regarding any firearms law. Florida is a preemption state. Meaning, with the exception of waiting periods (See 790.33 section 2 bellow), when it comes to firearms, state law is king... And... not to insult our LEO friends, but I know quite a few personally, and many of them are truly clueless about firearms law.

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 790
Weapons And Firearms

790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.--

(1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.

(2) LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.--

(a) Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, "purchase" means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.

(b) Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall apply to all sales of handguns to individuals by a retail establishment except those sales to individuals exempted in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, "retail establishment" means a gun shop, sporting goods store, pawn shop, hardware store, department store, discount store, bait or tackle shop, or any other store or shop that offers handguns for walk-in retail sale but does not include gun collectors shows or exhibits, or gun shows.

(c) Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall not require any reporting or notification to any source outside the retail establishment, but records of handgun sales must be available for inspection, during normal business hours, by any law enforcement agency as defined in s. 934.02.

(d) The following shall be exempt from any waiting period:

1. Individuals who are licensed to carry concealed firearms under the provisions of s. 790.06 or who are licensed to carry concealed firearms under any other provision of state law and who show a valid license;

2. Individuals who already lawfully own another firearm and who show a sales receipt for another firearm; who are known to own another firearm through a prior purchase from the retail establishment; or who have another firearm for trade-in;

3. A law enforcement or correctional officer as defined in s. 943.10;

4. A law enforcement agency as defined in s. 934.02;

5. Sales or transactions between dealers or between distributors or between dealers and distributors who have current federal firearms licenses; or

6. Any individual who has been threatened or whose family has been threatened with death or bodily injury, provided the individual may lawfully possess a firearm and provided such threat has been duly reported to local law enforcement.

(3) POLICY AND INTENT.--

(a) It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.

(b) As created by chapter 87-23, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the "Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act."

History.--ss. 1, 2, 3, 4, ch. 87-23; s. 5, ch. 88-183.

[gdonley308]

Yep and my two friends who are LEOs said unofficially it's because they don't want to be out gunned during a traffic stop. So if all my local LE Depts. are saying the same thing it would be foolish to challenge them, I wouldn't stand a chance. I wonder who in Tallahassee I could contact for clarification? Something I could fax to the different Police and Sherriffs Departments. Something I could keep with me in the truck in case I'm pulled over again.

[jcast141]

LEO's are rather out of the loop when it comes to firearms law, I know a few who don't quite grasp the concept of a semi-auto AR. I did check with my city pd and county so and a rifle stored in a carrying case is allowed, case doesn't have to be padlocked or anything like that, simply closed.

[gdonley308]

LEO's are rather out of the loop when it comes to firearms law, I know a few who don't quite grasp the concept of a semi-auto AR. I did check with my city pd and county so and a rifle stored in a carrying case is allowed, case doesn't have to be padlocked or anything like that, simply closed.

Did you ask can it be loaded? I know they told me it was okay if the rifle was in the trunk, don't have a trunk, unloaded with no immediate access to the ammunition. They said that you can only be going to and from the range or gun store? They told me it was part of a zoning law??? :?

[jcast141]

Forgot to add that, thanks. Rifle must be unloaded, you can have the ammunition but cannot be in the rifle. I forgot to ask if it can be on a side saddle or if it has to be in its own case. I will more than likely run a call or two with SO at work tomorrow and will ask then.

[RawRadioFL]

FYI:

790.001 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
...

(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.


790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--
...

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

[RawRadioFL]

Forgot to add that, thanks. Rifle must be unloaded, you can have the ammunition but cannot be in the rifle. I forgot to ask if it can be on a side saddle or if it has to be in its own case. I will more than likely run a call or two with SO at work tomorrow and will ask then.

Perhaps you might consider politely pointing out he above subsections of 790. Who knows... you might educate someone.

[coldair]

an unloaded firearm is just an expensive club

[gdonley308]

an unloaded firearm is just an expensive club


Exactly and that was my whole dilemma not if I could transport a long gun but could I keep it loaded. I flat asked if I could keep my pump 12 gauge loaded behind the seat of my truck in a sleeve case. They said not loaded and no ammunition in my side saddle holder or in any compartment on the gun case? Ammunition must be seperated and either locked in the glove box or not readily available to use in the firearm, so what's the point.

[RawRadioFL]

an unloaded firearm is just an expensive club


Exactly and that was my whole dilemma not if I could transport a long gun but could I keep it loaded. I flat asked if I could keep my pump 12 gauge loaded behind the seat of my truck in a sleeve case. They said not loaded and no ammunition in my side saddle holder or in any compartment on the gun case? Ammunition must be seperated and either locked in the glove box or not readily available to use in the firearm, so what's the point.

If it were me, I would ask them (whoever they are) to show me the state law that requires this. If you do find one, please share the Title, Chapter and Section. I can point to (and have in this thread) specific statutes that seem to be in conflict with what 'they' are saying. LE can not just make this stuff up because they 'don't want to be out gunned'. There is a process for making law...

[coldair]

I have contacted the collier county sheriff's office legal dept for a clarification on this

[constructor]

Yeah,
Axeltow's standing in the middle of a field with a lever action 357 with iron sights shooting a 3' boulder off hand 196yds away as fast as he can chamber and hitting the damn boulder every time :shock:
Maybe the 5th should issue lever action 357s LOL

[gdonley308]

I have contacted the collier county sheriff's office legal dept for a clarification on this

Did they get back to you?

[ccoker]

I have shot one deer with a 357 lever action, using American Eagle 158g SP, hit a medium sized buck square in the center of the chest at about a 100 yards, ran about 40 yards and piled up and zero movement...

I gave it to a buddy who needed some help last year...
I also have a stainless guide gun 45/70

like the others said, dependant upon need, I say a lever action could make an ideal "truck gun" and less likely to get a cop all jumpy compared to an AR

[constructor]

Charles, when are you coming up?

[Cold]

As far as a truck gun, for me, it depends which location I am in, the following have all been truck guns because they met the criteria for me (which is): cheep enough I dont care if it looks like hell after a rough day at the ranch, suitable caliber for handling man and beast (in my locals hogs/coyotes/MT Lion) and 3 ammo is plentiful and not super expensive.

So that left me with these firearms over the years as truck guns.

Mosin m44 in 762x54R

Enfield in 308

12 Ga Remington 870 PD trade in which I duracoated

They each served well, the 308 Enfield was the best of the lot but that short mosin was good too just never had the chance to deploy it much.

[ccoker]

Charles, when are you coming up?

to Colorado?

[constructor]

Charles, when are you coming up?

to Colorado?

Chris's

[coldair]

the legal officer got back we me yesterday, he referred me to the florida state statue. as long as it is for a lawful purpose there is no law preventing you from carrying a loaded long gun as long as it is not readily accesible, either in a case, behind the back seat. he also said that if the officer is getting upset about it ask for a supervisor and if the do want to arrest you let them its not the time to argue with them.

[gdonley308]

My local LE departments interpretation of not readily accessible is not behind the back seat of my standard cab pick up. If I can reach it then it's accessible. There is room from interpretation by the officer and that is a problem for me. If I'm even charged with a felony I loose my career, I don't need to be convicted to have my license pulled. I will continue to seek out an answer at my local level. What's amazing is the State of Florida Division of Licensing referred me to my local LE? This is a State Statue I don't see how the local city LE can over ride that? Thanks for checking with the LE in your area I'll be showing a copy of this post to my local LE department.

[ccoker]

Charles, when are you coming up?

to Colorado?

Chris's

well, his place is "down" from me about 3 hrs

my plan is Sat AM