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View Full Version : .223 Wylde vs. .223 vs. 5.56



Simple Man
11-24-2010, 01:11 PM
Where does the .223 Wylde chambering fit into the equation compared to .223 and 5.56? I notice a lot of manufacturers are now offering it and was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages of this chamber offering are. My old bushmaster says .223/5.56 on the barrel. Its approximatly 10 yrs. old. Is this chamber similiar to the .223 Wylde? I've finished my 6.8 but would love to supplement my Bushmaster I have in .223/5.56.

constructor
11-24-2010, 03:51 PM
The 5.56 chamber is a sloppy military chamber with a long throat(.226 diameter and .056 long), the .223 chamber is tighter in all dimensions and has a shorter throat(.025 long), works well with varmint bullets.
The Wylde has a generous chamber size but the throat is smaller in diameter(.224) to hold the bullet in line with the bore better , the freebore is .061 long.

Clint
11-24-2010, 05:06 PM
here (http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf) is a nice chart from AR15BARRELS that shows the dimensions of the various reamers

Ratdog68
11-24-2010, 05:12 PM
here (http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf) is a nice chart from AR15BARRELS that shows the dimensions of the various reamers

Didjas fergit sumpin' ?

Equalizer_2
11-24-2010, 09:02 PM
Didjas fergit sumpin' ?

The "here" is the actual link, that is why it is in color.

Ratdog68
11-24-2010, 09:07 PM
The "here" is the actual link, that is why it is in color.

'DOH !!! I missed seeing the different color of the "here". Grassy Ass Ameeeeeeeeego !

Simple Man
11-26-2010, 07:59 AM
I guess to refine my question from an end user standpoint and not design. Would the Wylde offer any advantages as far as being able to use .556 and .223?

MCA
11-26-2010, 08:22 AM
The Bushmaster you have (labeled .223/5.56) is a 5.56 chamber - same as every barrel labeled "5.56" or "5.56 NATO". It's labeled .223/5.56 because it can handle the higher pressures of mil surplus 5.56 ammo and can also load and use lower pressure .223 ammo (though perhaps not as accurately as a .223 chambered barrel). The Wylde is supposed to be a compromise between the two - more accurate than the 5.56 yet still able to handle mil surplus 5.56 ammo pressures.

Clint
11-26-2010, 11:55 AM
I guess to refine my question from an end user standpoint and not design. Would the Wylde offer any advantages as far as being able to use .556 and .223?

Yes, you can safely shoot high pressure 556 ammo such as XM855 and XM193 in a Wylde.

It may show mild pressure signs though.

The only thing that seems wrong with the Wylde and some 223 chambers is the .224 freebore dia.

Almost every other cartridge has a free bore diameter 1-3 thousandths larger than the nominal groove dia.

Some of the semi match chambers and some 223 have 1/2 thou over.

Zero thou over seems too tight, but maybe it works fine.

borderpatrol
11-27-2010, 04:09 PM
Bill Wylde's chamber is about ideal when it comes to accuracy and reliablity from an AR15. It lacks a little room for single loaded 80 grain long range ammo, but at least 95% of AR15 owners will never shoot their rifles at 600 yard tournaments.

80 grain Sierra Match Kings will seat somewhere close to 2.450" in a Wylde chamber to touch rifling.

Closer to 2.500" in Frank White's chamber designed for the USAMU (Compass Lake Engineering match chamber)

Around 2.550" to touch rifling in a 5.56mm NATO chamber.

For magazine fed rifles shooting magazine length ammo the Wylde chamber rocks. This is what the vast majority of AR15 owners need to work well and the Wylde chamber makes it happen.

What's really intersting is Bill Wylde designed this chamber before the armed forces ever fielded the M16-A2. He didn't have a clue what "match ammo" would ever be fielded. He knew they were going to the 1/7 twist and that it was capable to stabilize bullets weighing at least 77 grains. Early test for a squad automatic rifle in the 60's had used 1/7.7 twist barrels to stabilize 77 grain bullets, but the idea was shelved.

If you can find any old articles about the "SALVO" testing conducted in the 60's by Colt and others it's interesting reading.

Ratdog68
11-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Couple of questions on this. First... is the gain of the ability to shoot higher pressure loads more than what is lost in accuracy between the .223 chamber and the .223 Wylde? I'm interested in the notion of being able to shoot anything off the shelf with this gun, but, don't really want to give up much in the rifle's ability to be accurate. Second... if my rememberer is working correctly, my Colt Match Grade HBAR in (.223 Rem) 1:7 is a chrome lined barrel. Would reaming to .223 Wylde cause damage to the chrome lining?

Equalizer_2
11-27-2010, 08:36 PM
RD, there are a lot of 6.8 owners with chrome lined barrels that have reamed them to SPC II. The process removes the chrome from that area of the chamber but as for effect on accuracy those that have reamed the chamber will have to report on that.

Ratdog68
11-27-2010, 08:41 PM
Yes, I'm aware of the removal of a bit of chrome from that area of the chamber... what I'm curious about is... does that potentially facilitate the flaking off of chrome at the breech of the barrel? I've never done one, nor, had one done. I figure it's "more gooder" to ask about these types of details now, than to wait until afterwards.

DDriller
11-27-2010, 09:02 PM
I have had my CL 6.8 reamed with no ill effect. Check with H. about reaming it for you.

Ratdog68
11-27-2010, 09:09 PM
Thanks Richard... and, if I decide to ream it... I was already plannin' on pesterin' H 'bout it (if'n he has a Wylde reamer)(but then... we know how much he dislikes any form of wildcats) :a04:

DDriller
11-27-2010, 09:12 PM
I know he does because I bought one from him. :a12:

Ratdog68
11-27-2010, 09:15 PM
I know he does because I bought one from him. :a12:

Grassy Ass Ameeeeeeego. Thanks.

borderpatrol
11-27-2010, 09:27 PM
Couple of questions on this. First... is the gain of the ability to shoot higher pressure loads more than what is lost in accuracy between the .223 chamber and the .223 Wylde? I'm interested in the notion of being able to shoot anything off the shelf with this gun, but, don't really want to give up much in the rifle's ability to be accurate. Second... if my rememberer is working correctly, my Colt Match Grade HBAR in (.223 Rem) 1:7 is a chrome lined barrel. Would reaming to .223 Wylde cause damage to the chrome lining?

You can't get there from here. Your chamber is already bigger than a Wylde, using a Wylde chamber wouldn't touch your chamber at all unless you went too deep, deep enough to compromise your headspace.

This is best left to your next barrel purchase.

edited to add; 5.56mm NATO chambers are capable of excellent accuracy in spite of being "loose". Better bullets make the difference.

Ratdog68
11-27-2010, 09:30 PM
You can't get there from here. Your chamber is already bigger than a Wylde, using a Wylde chamber wouldn't touch your chamber at all unless you went too deep, deep enough to compromise your headspace.

This is best left to your next barrel purchase.

Really? I was under the impression that the Wylde was between the .223 Rem chamber (my existing one) and the 5.56 NATO?

DDriller
11-27-2010, 09:34 PM
IIRC reaming with the Wylde reamer will lengthen the lead similar to the 6.8 chambers

borderpatrol
11-28-2010, 01:12 PM
A Wylde reamer will "work" on a SAAMI .223 chamber, a 5.56mm NATO chamber is both longer and bigger around in the neck/freebore than the Wylde. So no, it won't remove any metal from a NATO chamber unless you enter too far and compromise your headspace measurement. Even then it won't touch the throat, neck or freebore.

Ratdog68
11-28-2010, 01:34 PM
A Wylde reamer will "work" on a SAAMI .223 chamber, a 5.56mm NATO chamber is both longer and bigger around in the neck/freebore than the Wylde. So no, it won't remove any metal from a NATO chamber unless you enter too far and compromise your headspace measurement. Even then it won't touch the throat, neck or freebore.

Ok, so... you have me wondering now. First you said I can't get there from here with my .223 Rem chamber (I'm assuming is SAAMI) if I opted to ream to .223 Wylde? A call to Colt a few months ago netted me an advisory from them that my serial number is not 5.56 NATO. I need to get my paws on a tool to pull my forearm off to get a look at my barrel before I know for certain how mine is marked.

borderpatrol
11-28-2010, 04:09 PM
As far as I know, Colt has always used a 5.56mm chamber on their AR15 rifles. The same chamber that's issued to the troops. Receivers may be marked .223, but the barrel is usually marked 5.56mm NATO between the front sight post and the muzzle. That marking is the chamber spec.

If you have any 80 grain Sierra Match Kings, simply try the seating depths I posted earlier. If you have a SAAMI chamber there is no way it will accept a bullet seated at 2.450" (typical Wylde chamber to touch rifling). The bullet will get stuck and you'll have to use a cleaning rod to get it out. A 5.56mm NATO chamber will easily accept a 80 grain SMK seated all the way out to around 2.550" before it touches the rifling.

Ratdog68
11-28-2010, 04:23 PM
Thanks... I'll make a note of the 80 gr SMK tip and maybe tinker and see. My receiver is marked .223 Rem, and I'd heard that it may be other than that... so, I called Colt and inquired. But... ya never know who's answering the phone and how reliable an answer is... so, before I took that as gospel, I want to pull the handguard and see what I find on the barrel. I'm in no hurry, and no reason to be either. Just doin' my fact finding chores as I go.

QuicksilverJPR
11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
I can tell you that my stainless Wylde chambered 16" hunting rig is accurate as hell (using Privi 75gr, Hornady 75gr TAP-T2 and standard TAP .223). I've shot plenty of the Sierra 77gr MatchKings as well, and it is good to go!

Ratdog68
11-30-2010, 11:15 AM
I can tell you that my stainless Wylde chambered 16" hunting rig is accurate as hell (using Privi 75gr, Hornady 75gr TAP-T2 and standard TAP .223). I've shot plenty of the Sierra 77gr MatchKings as well, and it is good to go!

Yeah... I'm thinkin' I'll be switching over to at least a 68gr pill with this barrel, maybe heavier too.